Tuesday, October 24, 2006

LEAF LAW PROPOSED TO BAN LEAVES ON STREETS

The Town Board will be holding a hearing on Wednesday on a proposed law to ban the piling of leaves on any streets or sidewalks. Residents have been complaining about safety hazards each fall when leaves are placed on public streets, roads, sidewalks. The proposed law will make our neighborhoods safer by keeping them clear of dangerous piles of leaves. The proposed law indicates that a leaf pile located on any street shall create a rebuttable presumption that the landowner permitted the leaves to be placed at the location. Summonses and violation notices will be issued. Fines: up to $500 per infraction.

ON ANOTHER MATTER-- the Greenburgh Health Center received final approval to build their new health center building on Knollwood Road.

64 comments:

Another Person Feiner is Driving Out said...

And what if there is no room on your property on put leaves -- many greenburgh properties are hilly.

What would supervisor Feiner care or know -- he lives in a gated commnunity with full time help.

and will this break the leaf pickers -- going over curves.

I guess I will have to cut down my trees -- there is no place on my property to put leaves.

this is so unnecessary -- why is someone allowed to park cars on my street but not leaves

Anonymous said...

I thought this was already illegal?

Anonymous said...

I defy anyone to show me, on my hilly property, where else I could put leaves.

This is an order from Feiner to get rid of trees

Anonymous said...

Is this driven by the Public Works which is so busy picking up garbage at commercial locations (which is not per their contract, so I assume kickbacks) that they cant pick up leaves often enough.

Last year they picked up leaves so infrequently they got snowed on.

I guess when you cant do your jobs, you have to figure out a away to make your job easier.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it amazing that 4 people respond to an e mail within minutes of each other - 2:45, 2:46,2:51, 2:53. I had heard that this was initiated at the request of the Police Advisory Board. This Board is made up of citizens who reside all over the town.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon at 3:01,

we can all read times

do you have anything to say re leaf law? What are your thoughts on leaf law and how it will affect you?

Anonymous said...

What if a neighbor or their gardener dumps their leaves on my property? Then I will get fined for their illegal activities, because I am the one ultimately responsible for my property?

I don't think the answer is to make it illegal and to fine...I think the department of public works should be making more frequent leaf pickups.

I am not a fan of having piles of leaves on my property anyway...it kills my grass and costs me more money to grow new grass. The town should be taking it away, and more often.

Anonymous said...

Give public works a break, they are too busy picking up extra cash by picks up at commercial sites.

I see Greenburgh sanitiation truck s at Patio.com, on central all the time.

Anonymous said...

I'm thrilled about this proposed law. Piles of leaves in the streets create driving hazzards and homeowners should be held accountable.

Anonymous said...

Dear anon at 4:08

That is why public works should have more pick ups

what are homewonerw will hilly/rocky front yards supposed to do??

Anonymous said...

This leaf law is just another way to subsidize the villages. The fines will be only on the property unincorporated Greenburgh but will go into the town wide budget.

Paul has to take care of the villages.

Can the EVEC people please reevaluat the cost of a village to include if we stay part of unincorporated Greenburgh a couple of $500 fines?

Anonymous said...

Will the anon(s) who are accusing public works of picking up gargbage at commercial cites please report specifics to the town ethics board.

GoodGovtGuy said...

On first glance this proposed leaf law appears to be very unfair. After all, you know what they say about assuming ... and that's exactly what this law would do. It assumes ("presumes" in the legal parlance) guilt until you can prove you're innocent!

I live on a corner property. There are 4 homes located near the intersection at my corner, any one of which might (and often do) place their leaves at the corner next to my property - an extra wide area that can safely accomodate such piles without interfering with the vision of drivers or the flow of traffic on the road.

Many homeowners use lawncare service companies (though I currently do not) to gather their leaves into piles for the town to collect. In the past I have frequently observed these hired individuals blowing leaves across streets into areas that may be safer - from the standpoint of traffic - for the leaf piles, but are adjacent to a neighbor's property rather than that of their client. In a case such as mine, if I'm not at home to observe the act in progress, how would I determine who the offending party was, how would I go about proving my own innocence and what would you propose I do with the large mound of leaves that were placed there?

I agree that the piles can (but don't always - depending on the individual circumstances of the area where the piles are placed) create a safety hazard. This proposed law is NOT a reasonable solution. Perhaps rather than assuming guilt without proof, the town should be collecting the leaves more frequently so that the large piles don't sit there for weeks on end - killing any grass they may be piled on, which is what encourages people to push the leaves onto the paved surfaces in the first place!

Phillip Chonigman
Hartsdale

Anonymous said...

Dear Phil,

I agree the proposed law is too far reaching. I dont see that there is need for any law. My proposal would be more frequent leaf pickups on those streets that do not allow parking. Those streets have already been identified as busy/narrow. The streets that do allow parking clearly have enough room for leaves.

Anonymous said...

I recall years ago recieving a letter from the town stating that it was illegal to place leaves curbside in the street. Was this law recinded? It certainly was never enforced. I have observed many times over the years gardners from neigbors across the street (actually around the corner, but there is a driveway to it across the street) blow the leaves across to my side, since there is no place to put the leaves on there side. My suggestion would be to change the sanitation schedule (again) so that, during leaf pickup season, comingled is picked up less often, and leaves more often. I believe that most residents have much less comingled material to store then paper for recycling.

Howard F.

Anonymous said...

Dear Howard F.

That is another good suggestion. Perhaps if the town could have a drop off area for recycling (obviously requireing a drivers license with a greenburgh address) that could ameliorate the situation for households with a lot of recyclables (Maybe we have one already for all I know).

What is clear is that while the proposer of this legislation may have had all the good intentions in the word of improving safety is that is not workable. Enforcement will likely be spotty. Resentments will fester. This is not the way to run the town.

Anonymous said...

This is another stupid example of the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of our Town Board that would rather spend hours arguing than dealing properly with town issues. Remember the town board and all of its members work at the pleasure of the voters. Instead of proposing laws to fine homeowners who already pay tremendous taxes, they should focus on ways to let the town sanitation department better do their job.

Anonymous said...

This is another stupid example of the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of our Town Board that would rather spend hours arguing than dealing properly with town issues. Remember the town board and all of its members work at the pleasure of the voters. Instead of proposing laws to fine homeowners who already pay tremendous taxes, they should focus on ways to let the town sanitation department better do their job.

Anonymous said...

This is also not the right time to rush through this rule, right before fall leaf season. It should be carefully considered. It was knocked off the agenda at the at the last Town meeting. So the council has not had a chance to listen to our voices. They should not vote until they have had a chance to listen and carefully consider all the problems, and look for solutions.

Anonymous said...

Some very good points have been made here so far.

My own problem with the proposed law, besides the difficulty of reasonable enforcement, is that it forces us to either kill our lawns and go to the trouble and expense of reestablishing them each spring, or to bag enormous quantities of leaves. This is both expensive (the town-supplied bags, though gratefully accepted, are nowhere near sufficient for my property) and labor intensive. I for one cannot physically do this amount of heavy work and I don't see why I should be required to hire someone else to do so for me.

I see no reason that the Town cannot pick up leaves more frequently. Several good suggestions have been made. It seems to me that we should be working to find a solution to the problem rather than simply making it illegal.

in laws may move here said...

Paul Feiner is not driving my family out of town. In fact, I'm encouraging my in laws to move to Greenburgh because Greenburgh is so responsive. Where else can you find a Supervisor who asks us what we think before the town takes any action?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon at 10:31,

That is another good point re -- will the leaf law create more reseeding problems??

We want trees -- good for environment. Reseeding usually means fertilizer. We do not want more fertilizer, usually not organic, and even organic creates problems in rivers etc. So please, Town, lets think this through and figure out a way leaves can be picked up

fred becker said...

MARC HERMAN
I SEND COMMENTS ON THE LEAF
LAW ON OCTOBER 24 AT APPROX 8.30 PM

DO THESE COMMENTS GET INCLUDED IN FEINER BLOG OR ARE THEY EDITED.

WHAT HAPPENED TO MY COMMENTS?

RGDS
FRED BECKER
fredbecker@majeltd.com

Marc Herman said...

Fred,

The comments are placed immediately onto the blog after posting them. No editing occurs inbetween when you hit "Publish" and when it appears on the page. Blogger.com has been undergoing maintenance lately, and that has been causing a few lost posts. If it doesn't appear within 30 minutes, try publishing it again. I'm sorry for any inconvenience.

Marc Herman said...

TOWN of GREENBURGH

Local Law No. /2006






A local law amending sections of Chapter 410 of the Town Code of the Town of Greenburgh pursuant to New York State Constitution Article IX and New York Municipal Home Rule Law § 10.

BE IT ENACTED by the Town Board of the Town of Greenburgh:

§ 1. Title.

§ 2 Legislative Findings and Intent.

§ 3. Amendment to § 410-4(C).

§ 4. Amendment to § 410-4(O).

§ 5. Amendment to § 410-9(A).

§ 6. Severability.

§ 7. Effective Date.



§ 1. Title. This law is entitled “A local law amending Chapter 410 of the Town Code prohibiting the piling of leaves on any public street, roadway, highway or sidewalk within the Town”.

§ 2. Legislative Findings and Intent.

The Town Board recognizes the well-established safety hazards presented each fall season by piles of leaves and other such debris which are placed on our public streets, roadways, highways and sidewalks and is therefore amending the Town Code to establish accountability for such actions. It is the Town’s intent to make our neighborhoods safer for our children, pedestrians and motorists by keeping them clear of dangerous piles of leaves and other such debris.
§ 3. Amendment to § 410-4(C).


§ 410-4(C) of the Greenburgh Town Code, is hereby amended to read (new text underlined):

C. No person shall throw, cast or lay or direct, suffer or permit any person to throw, cast or lay any solid waste or discarded matter of any type, including automobiles, automobile parts and other machinery, and leaves, with the exception described in § 410-4(C)(1) below, on any street, sidewalk or right-of-way within the Town.




1. Leaves may be piled on the public right-of-way for collection, but not on any public street, roadway, highway or sidewalk, during the time designated for leaf collection. A leaf pile(s) located on any public street, roadway, highway or sidewalk shall create a rebuttable presumption that the landowner, management agent or occupant of the premise adjacent to the leaf pile, threw, cast, lay, directed, suffered or permitted the leaves to be placed in this location."

§ 4. Amendment to § 410-4(O)(1).


§ 410-4(O)(1) of the Greenburgh Town Code, is hereby amended to read (new text underlined):


(O)
Procedure for correction of violations.

(1)

Notice of a violation of this section shall be served on the owner or some one of the owner's executors, legal representatives, agents, lessees or any other person having a vested or contingent interest in the same either personally or by certified mail sent to the last known address of the owner or some one of the owner's executors, legal representatives, agents, lessees or any other person having a vested or contingent interest in the same. Said notice shall contain a statement describing the violation and an order requiring the same to be corrected. If service is made by certified mail, a copy of the notice shall be posted on the premises. The notice shall provide that the violation must be corrected within 14 days after service of the notice. In addition, for a violation of §410-4C(1), a summons may be issued as an alternative to a violation notice.



.

§ 5. Amendment to § 410-9(A) of the Greenburgh Town Code is hereby amended to read (deleted text in strikeout, new text underlined):

A. This chapter shall be enforceable by the Commissioner of the Department of Public Works, the Building Inspector and their designated assistants and any member of the Police Department of the Town of Greenburgh. Each shall have the authority to issue violation notices and summonses and seek injunctive relief as necessary.

1. If a summons is issued pursuant to section 410-4 (O) of the Town Code upon the landowner, management agent or occupant of a residential property, and said person presents to the Court on the day the summons is answerable, verifiable proof that such leaf obstruction was cured within 48 hours of issuance of the summons, then said summons may be dismissed by the Court.

§ 6. Severability

The provisions of this local law are intended to be severable. If any provision of this local law is found by a Court of competent jurisdiction to be unconstitutional or otherwise invalid, such findings shall not be deemed to invalidate the local law as a whole, nor any other section or provision thereof, other than that which is found to be unconstitutional or otherwise invalid.

§ 7. Effective Date

This local law shall take effect immediately upon filing with the Secretary of State.

Greenburgh Taxpayer said...

Does anyone know the answer to the questions --

As this amends Town Code, can violations only be issued for properties within Unincorporated Greenburgh?

Do fines, like all other fines, go into Town Wide Budget?

The proposed law is overreaching and will be impossible for many to comply with. If Public Works did their job, and picked up leaves more often (not like once every 3 weeks) it would not be necessary. Instead, Feiner has found an easy way to raise more money for the Villages.

DRW said...

I don't understand why the overburdened taxpayers of Greenburgh are required to pay for leaf removal carting by the town. Let each homeowner be responsible for his own leaves: they can pay their gardners to take them away, collect them themselves and bring them to a spot designated by the town, or just let them lay where they are. They should not be allowed to dump them on the street. In fact this practice is a regressive tax since homeowners with few or any leaves are subsidizing the large property owners merely for aesthetic purposes (unlike garbage, there is no health or safety reason for picking up leaves from a lawn). I grew up in a town which did not pick up the leaves and left it to the homeowners to decide what to do. Give the taxpayers a break.

Anonymous said...

drw,

Picking up leaves is not regressive. Property taxes are higher on larger properties.

Homeowners are paying huge property taxes. We are subsidizing the apartments, which are assessed at a different scheme, which results in lower tax, even for properties of same value, than homes.

every other town picks up leaves --
when I was a child, people burned leaves. that is not allowed now. that is why town picks up.

Greenburgh has high taxes and minimal services as it is. WE need leaf collection.

Anonymous said...

This is just more mismagement at the Town, if they had reasonably frequent pickups, this legislation would not be proposed.

Feiner keeps saying he is the CFO of the town. Why can't he manage to have more leaf pickups? Why is he so busy pandering to special interest groups he can not focus on providing basic services? Does anyone on the Town Council live in his own home? Are any of those homes such that their is minimal front yard to put leaves on? Do any of them care about those of us that are in this position?

The town law says the fine will be rescined if cleaned up in 48 hours.

1. Does that include court costs?

2. If there were sufficiently frequent town pick ups, the leaves would be picked up by the town -- and out of the way in a reasonably short period of time, which is all this law is trying to accomplish.

Anonymous said...

What's so difficult about making the requirement to bag leaves? Easy to pick up, they don't fly into your neighbor's lawn, and they aren't a hazzard. Sure, a bit more work for the homeowner, but it's a functional solution, especially for someone on hilly propery.

Anonymous said...

What are you kidding. It is a lot more work for the homeowner.

Not to mention how is the town going to monitor whose leaves are whose?

Where are all my town taxes going???

Anonymous said...

The proposed leaf law should be voted in, I always thought that a similar law was already in effect.
Hy Fishoff

Anonymous said...

Some of the heartless apartment, condo and coop dwellers (who pay less tax per assessed value than homeowners may want this). The homeowners are livid.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Fishoff,

I am a single mother. I leave for work in the city early in the morning. I do not even know what days my gardner will come. It would be virtually impossible for me to control where my leaves go, or to come home at night and bag them, leaving aside the issue of whether neighbors might deposit their leaves in front of my property.

I pay what to me are very high Greenburgh property taxes. As you may know, the system for assessing single family homes results in larger property taxes for single family homes than rental, condo or coop apartments of the same value. It does not seem unfair to me to ask the Town to pick up leaves.

Can I ask how you think I should handle this? and do live in an apartment?

Best regards,

TVozick said...

First I have to say I am appalled by the nastiness expressed here against Supervisor Feiner by people who don't even have the courage to stand by their words and sign their vitriolic comments. You sound like a bunch of kids on a playground. Grow up - the supervisor is not responsible for everything you don't like in the town, or in your life. We have a Town Board, and committees, and a Commissioner and Department of Public Works, etc etc - the last time I looked, Greenburgh was not some kind of feudal kingdom presided over by Paul Feiner. He's our elected representative, and it seems to me that he tries harder than most to stay in touch with his constituents, listen to them, and make decisions that he honestly feels are in the town's best interests. Try being constructive. Feiner is giving you a forum to talk in - all you can do is make snide comments? You wouldn't let your kids get away with it, would you, if you were the target? It makes me wonder if there is a political element to these nasty comments - because if not, why wouldn't you sign your name(s)? Try hitting "other" and typing your name in rather than some oh-so-cute nonsense like "Another Person Feiner is Driving Out" as your name - or do it right on the bottom of your note. Anonymous notes are confusing, since we dont know how many different individuals are writing them, and they don't really add to productive discussion.

Onto the point of the post:
While not unsympathetic to the problem - usually caused, in my view, by hired gardeners who could and should haul offf the mounds of leaves they amass - less affluent homeowners who can't afford to hire a gardener have to manage the leaves themselves.

Seeing as a good deal of the leaves come from town-owned trees along the streets, but partly on our properties, what arrangements will be made by the town to increase leaf pick-up or removal? Without a much increased program of leaf removal, this law puts an unfair burden on homeowners. In other words - these are the town's trees - it's the town's responsibility to inspect them for damage and dead limbs (which they do not), maintain and prune them (which they do not), and rake and remove the leaves (which I'll eat my hat if they agree to do). So I don't think this law on its own is of value.

And that goes for the leaves we rake on our properties that are not from the town's trees - we need improved removal. They send out a postcard, but then they arrive whenever it suits them, without much connection to the stated time. Maybe you could start using the email list to notify people when to really expect the leaf pickup.

Further, we have a town noise law, don't we? Designed to stop the impossibly loud gas blowers and mowers that these hired gardeners use? Well, that law is never enforced. If you call about it, the police (understandably, I guess) have the attitude that they have more important things to do than to chase after a gardener's noisy equipment. So what's the point of having the law? I actually am in favor of the noise law, but not if it isn't enforced.

Maybe this has to be out of the realm of a law and the police, and in some other hands, if you're serious about passing a law about leaves. By the way, what about snow? Same thing applies. We need an improved sanitation/highways department before we create yet another way to harass homeowners without providing proper services. And give back the 2 garbage pickups a week during holiday weeks - the "experimental" system of one pick up and 2 days for recycling is nonsensical and isn't working. I'd rather have bottles around for an extra week than garbage piled up outside, especially in a holiday week when there may be more garbage than usual, not less.

That's what I think about this proposed law. I hope we can have some more civilized discussion here - I heard the same kind of nasty, snide, politically motivated comments at a recent public hearing in Town Hall and it is really not called for or acceptable. Can we try raising the level of discourse?


Tina Vozick
Unincorporated Greenburgh

Anonymous said...

Anyone watch or go to last nights council meeting.

The council was outragous. Civic leader after civic leader got up from Edgemont and said this was unworkable. Council said too bad -- proposal was recommended by Town Committee with reprsentatin from Edgmeont. Well it certainly was not the people elected to head our civic associations, known leaders who are in touch with the community.

The committee person and the council said they have been studying this for 2 years, and are aware of the issues, and will consider changes to the legislation. Well, if they were aware of the issues, why did not the proposed legislation address them? Why was it brought out for comment before these issues were resolved, if they were known? Instead the Town introduces legislation they know has issues, they get comments on legislation they know has issues, and then what happens? They have some changes (maybe) bring new legislation to the meeting on November 7, and then listen to our comments (probably with our having had the revised proposals for a very short time, if at all) and then that night vote in. Sounds like democracy in action (that was sarcastic).

Even when they had the Town Judge get up, it was obvious there would be enforcement issues. How can we tell where leaves came from? Are the police going to question neighbors? Send out subponeass? Convene a grand jury?

It is time for Edgemont to become a Village. It was so obvious that no one on the Town Council was willing to listen. These fines (which will go the Town Wide Budget) are just another tax on Edgemont.

No one is agasint safety. The answer is clear. If the Town is concerned, it must step up to the plate and have more leaf collections, and schedule them at least 2 weeks in advance. The Town is willing to take no responsbility. Instead it will hire more police, etc. But it will get fines to cover those costs.

Do any of the Villages have this law? Scarsdale? White Plains? Whey is the Town of Greenburgh taking draconian measures against homeowners.

EGEMONT MUST BECOME A VILLAGE -- IF ANYONE HAD ANY DOUBT -- LISTEN TO THE REPLAY OF LAST NIGHT'S TOWN MEETING.

Anonymous said...

"I guess when you can't do your jobs, you have to figure out a away to make your job easier."

This is so true, except for the fact that Greenburgh Public Works CAN do its job, including more frequent leaf pickup. They need to work harder and work smarter. They need no new new staff or equipment; just professional management, higher expectations, and strict accountability.

Anonymous said...

"EDGEMONT MUST BECOME A VILLAGE"

Agreed. Though as a village in Greenburgh, there will still be tons of drama, just like the other six villages have to endure.

Would the Town of Scarsdale be interested in accepting Greenville-Edgemont as a village? Heck, even annexxing to Yonkers (pretty well managed despite many woes) would be better for Greenville-Edgemont than staying associated with Greenburgh.

Seriously, could someone who knows the Town of Scarsdale check into this?

Anonymous said...

I hope that the Board will listen to some of the comments made last night. This law needs alot of work.

Anonymous said...

What are homeowners to do about leaf removal?
why not simply enforce present laws banning anyone from blocking traffic.
Would there be a reduction in taxes when the town no longer has to pick up leaves?

winart1@aol.com

Anonymous said...

If the Town is so concerned about safety -- why no action on sidewalks -- easy answer that would cost town money, not generate fines.

As to safety --

1. Get leaves picked up more often. More transparency. We did not believe a word from DPW. We want the leaf schedules posted on the internet, even if after the fact. Then the taxpayers can see how little they do. That was malarky last night, I know how seldom leaves picked up on my street.

2. Make DPW stop (illegally) picking up commerical garbage.

3. Tell parents not to let children play in street.

4. Tell drivers to drive slower in dangerous conditions -- like wet leaves.


The potential dangers created by leaves are different from the danger created by the falliing tree on Central Avenue. Someone was driving up Central Avenue, minding his own business, when the tree fell.

On my street, there are no children, and no where to put leaves except street (or 20 feet in on lawn), because of rocks, hills. But these fines will be a real money raiser for Town.

Homeowner to Town -- do your job, and stop pushing it on us.

And get real Sheahan, even with extra bags it is next to impossible. DOES ANY OTHER TOWN HAVE THIS LAW? HAVE WE CHECKED TO SEE HOW IT WORKS?

History Buff said...

An attempt was made in the 1930s by Edgemont to become part of Scarsdale. Scarsdale's governing board rejected the proposal. There has been a movement since then for Edgemont to become a village. It flares up every now and then. In the late 1960s there was a serious effort to incorporate which was most likely related to the issue of where to locate low income housing in the Town. More recent efforts relate to zoning issues and a deaf ear to local Edgemont issues at the Town Board including unfair taxation with regard to parks. One cannot also discount the polarizing Mr. Feiner especially with regard to his recent actions visavis the Edgemont School District budget vote and his taking money from attorneys for developers with applications before the Town Board relating to Edgemont and other areas.

Edgemont voter said...

I wish the person who keeps blogging about Feiner would get a life. There must be things more interesting in life than thinking non stop about him and things to write about Feiner that aren't even true.
Paul Feiner is not perfect. He makes mistakes like all of us. The town is well managed. Services are great. Paul always has solved my problems.

Anonymous said...

I have listened to the issue
beeing discussed during last nights
Town Board meeting.
to spend that much time on a non-
issue that is not enforcable and
creates a hardship on most residents is pathetic.
For the record:The past few years
leaf collections have deteriorated
from year to year.The 2005 Fall
leaves were picked up in the spring of this year. Mr.Regula's statement that his
front-end loaders are more effecient than the Scarsdale
Village brand new vacuums is
wishful thinking,Mr. Regula's
12 men front loader crews can't
compete with the three men
Scarsdale Village vacuum crews.
Regardsless of which equipment
you use,and in an effort to not
increase operating costs,why not
do the paper and bottles collections once a month during the
two 'problem month' [Mr Regula]
and use the found time for leaf
collections,leaving all other as
is.

TVozick said...

Can I ask why so many comments on this are regarding Edgemont? Is this proposed law targeting you, or are you working out other grievances through this?

I'm against the law, as I said, but I don't think of it as some kind of conspiracy against unincorporated Greenburgh property owners - why do you think of it that way regarding Edgemont?

I'm not being facetious here - I actually would like to know.

Tina Vozick
Unincorporated, but not paranoid, Greenburgh

Edgemont Mother said...

Dear Tina,

I question whether you really have an open mind, if you sign yourself unparanoid,

but the issue is

Edgemont pays a full load of UNINCORPATED Greenburgh taxes, but gets MINIMAL BENEFIT -- there are no parks in Edgemont, and we pay for others. All the villages get a benefit (parks they can use but dont pay for) and many Villages get more (Irvington gets the Taxter land -- which ONLY Irvington has access to because of no parking, and prevents overcrowding of schools, Elmsford gets lots of programs at Young center, which it doent pay for, Ardsly gets parking at Hartsdale and now may get the Waterwheel property for its "volunteer" fireman)


Within Unincorporated Greenburgh, Hartsdale got the Town to purchse the Hart property, Valhalla (enough said, the extra school payments) and the Glenville Woods -- no where near Edgemont.

Does this help?

And on top of that, we get terrible DPW pickups (which the rest of the town may get also, but they get parks we help pay for and dont get)

The reason, IMHO, this has happened is as follows:

1. The Villages have more voting power. Feiner needs them to get re-elected, even if he allocates cost in violation of NYS law.

2. Feiner thinks that since Edgemont is rich, we can pay.

3. Feiner and the villages think that as we (purportedly) pay less total property tax, we can subsidize villages, etc. We are frugal in Edgemont. We have no school buses. We do not have an indoor pool at the school, like Ardsley (where Feiner's kids go). So because of that, we should subsidize the Villages?

Basically we are tired of paying for others.

Anonymous said...

First, I'm disappointed that the Town Board feels it's necessary to create a law for every item either discussed or brought to their attention. It's not necessary to legislate actions if the Town would stop finding excuses for not doing leaf pickup and just do it.

Second, on Old Kensico (Rd) Speedway (tells you who I am Paul), we pray for snow immediately after the leaves are piled so the Town and state plows can remove the leaves that sit for weeks on end, slowly spreading and turning into mulch on their own!

Third, Paul's idea last night of utilizing the laws intent, with the PD giving warnings, made the most sense of the entire argument. Even the judge appeared to take issue with it, giving the example of his yard being downwind from his neighbors.

Fourth, it only makes sense that the Police Community group, Chief Kapica, and the rest of the board go along with this as a safety issue. It sort of can be, but isn't exclusively. Fortunately, we didn't have to hear too much about it being "for the children" too much because then no one would object. And yet, none of these people proposing and supporting the law appear to have explored or investigated alternatives or visited other communities to see how they do it. Shame on them.

Fifth, Kapica said the PD needs the teeth so repeat offenders his officers see doing this can get a summons. Huh? Didn't he just say that he can't recall an officer ever enforcing the STATE law already in existance? So if they're not enforcing a current law available to them, why do we need another?

Finally, for the seniors, less-well-off, and yes, the working stiffs who do their own lawn work, how about working WITH us instead of trying to cripple us?

Paul was right on this one and the law should not be adopted! There must be another answer and Paul might be on the right track. If the Board members would think about what's best for the people they proport to represent, maybe we can make some real progress!

tvozick said...

Edgemont mom-
Well, I didn't actually say I had an open mind...

(That was a joke. Lighten up.) Point taken, I withdraw the "paranoid" crack.

But you need to try to see this as someone not on the inside of Edgemont's issues to understand how these posts sound. I've lived here for almost 15 years, and I have many complaints about poor town services - and extremely high taxes. I don't know why you don't have access to town parks, but I doubt that was something that the town supervisor decreed. You may have legitimate grievances, but the way you and some of your neighbors are expressing them indeed makes it sound like you think there's a conspiracy against Edgemont.

Sorry, but I don't get it. As for there being an indoor pool in Ardsley's school (and I think you are way out of line commenting on where Feiner's kids go to school) -hey, my kids are not in school in greenburgh, but I have to pay school taxes, getting absolutely no benefit from all of those thousands of my tax dollars. That's the way it works.

There must be some rational explanation for why Edgemont gets the short end of the stick - do you pay a lower tax rate? I just don't buy that the answer is that Feiner wants the villages' votes and is systematically taking actions to hurt your part of our community.

I don't expect to convince you - in fact for all I know you are correct - but what I was observing and commenting on is the extremely harsh tone that some of you have taken here and in meetings that I've sat through, and I think it is unproductive, and seems motivated by things other than the issue at hand.

What I was asking is whether this leaf law is somehow targeting your community - some of you seem to equate "homeowner"with "Edgemont", and see this law as somehow singling you out, or being more of a burden for you than the rest of us, and that's what I am questioning.

Tina Vozick

Anonymous said...

Tina,

So many of Edgemont's leaders took the time to go the meeting on leafs and teh council didnt seem to listen.

And the rest of Greenburgh may have issues also.

tvozick said...

Right, I agree, the rest of Greenburgh may have issues with this law - as I said more than once, I have issues with it - I think it's a bad idea and there are much better ways to fix this problem. But I don't see it as us vs them, which unfortunately is what I'm hearing here and at town meetings. We're obviously not going to solve this larger problem here, so let's get back to the leaves. Were any conclusions reached last night?

Anonymous said...

I do not think there were any conclusions reached. What was frustrating to me was that the Council realized that there were "issues" with the law, and still introduced it. I do not think that was responsible. I realize the citizen volunteers ahve given up a lot of time and I appreciate that, but sometimes you have to accept that even though it is a worthwhile goal -- of safety -- it just may be unworkable.

Anonymous said...

The town should be picking up the leaves more often, with the taxes Greenburgh residents pay.

Anonymous said...

How do our taxes compare with other comparable Towns in lower Westchester? There is a perception Greenburgh taxes are high. Is this accurate?

dano said...

Greenburgh DPW does such a poor job - particularly when compared to Yonkers, Mount Pleasant, White Plains, Scarsdale, and the Villages. While there are many nice things about living in Greenburgh, the quality of DPW services certainly is not one of them.

The department needs a professional operations manager and measureable objectives with higher expectations. No additional equipment or employees or laws or fines or taxes are needed for Greenburgh DPW to provide higher quality and more efficient services.

Anonymous said...

Edgemont Mom,

If you want the short end of the stick, try living in Ardsley. We have a pool complex in our town we cannot use, yet we have tons of traffic going through our town to get to it. We also DO NOT have access to parking in Hartsdale. You want privlidge, try being in Hartsdale, but Ardsley school district. They're the ones who get everything. I wish Ardsley schools would consider, if only for moment, cutting out everyone who isn't Ardsley village in the schools. Then you'd see an uproar. Where is Ardsley's voice? Where is our Bernstein?

Anonymous said...

here's an idea for next year -- likely too late for this year -- greenburgh public works be responsible only for leaf pickup in the woodlands and hartsdale neighborhoods -- contract with yonkers to do the western greenville area, scarsdale to do the eastern greenville area, white plains to do fairview, mount pleasant to do eastview, etc, etc

i'd bet that they'd gladly do our leaf pickup, and do it very well -- and whatever they'd charge would simply be deducted from the greenburgh public works management budget

AL REGULA FAN CLUB MEMBER said...

Dano: you say our DPW team is not good? Do you need glasses? When it snows our roads are much better plowed than Yonkers or Scarsdale. Our sanitation crews don't even require curb side pickup? Some neighboring communities require leaves to be bagged. This increases gardening costs. Greenburgh picks up leaves in bags or not in bags. Al Regula, Commissioner of Public Works, is a professional. He does a great job.

Anonymous said...

Dear Al Regula Fan Club member,

Like I said when I lived in WP, we got garbage pickup 2 days per week/recylcing botteles and papers every week except holidays, and they did not require curb side pickups.

Maybe we need tradeoffs -- i would rather have better leaf pickups and one day per week garbabe must be curbside and maybe less recycling.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon at 4:27

Hartsdale and Edgemont pay much higher Town taxes than Ardsley Village, that is why they get access to the one restricted park. All Town residents, including Ardsley Village, get access to the rest of the Town parks for free.

The Hartsdale Public Parking Authority used to have some parking for Ardsley, but I think that is no longer available. I do not know if that is becuase the construction is taking so long. Maybe when it is done, permits for the D lot will be issued to Ardsley again. It is unfortunate that there was so much deferred maintenance on the Hartsdale garages, resulting in expensive repairs and out of service time.

This is the most dysfuntional arrangement around. But as long as the Villages do not want to negotiate with Bernstein and we do not have a Town Supervisor with the vision and will to help lead all of the village to a fair compromise.

dano said...

"When it snows our roads are much better plowed than Yonkers."

I used to live in Yonkers for years, and I drive through there every day, and I can say for certain that Yonkers does much much better with snowplowing, and other DPW services.

I don't know the DPW directors of any municipality, and maybe Mr. Regula is a great guy. But from the noticeably lower quality of services, it does appear that something in the way of operations/systems management needs major fixing in that department.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:05

There hasn't been parking for Ardsley residents in Hartsdale in the 7 years I've lived here.

Al Regula Fan Club member said...

To the blog poster who keeps claiming that Yonkers DPW services are better than Greenburgh's ---
did you write that after you drank a couple of bottles from Zachy's?
Anyone who thinks that must be
1)drunk
2)blind
I have friends in Yonkers. When it snows our roads are black. Their roads are white- full of snow.

Anonymous said...

Dear Al Regula fan

Maybe you have great DPW service -- maybe you live on a street where a town council member or major political contributor lives.

I know I don't --

Al Regula Fan Club Member said...

If you have a complaint about the Public Works Dept you should do what everyone else does-- you should contact the Public Works Dept. Al Regula always responds. You are the first person I know (we're becoming pen pals) who is discouraged by the department.
Give him a call. You might join our Al Regula fan club after you do.