Thursday, January 18, 2007


Robert Reninger, chair of the Broadview Civic Association, and others have asked about the status of geothermal wells at the new Greenburgh Library. He and others want to know if there is an application on file with the DEC. We received a response from Sal Coco (our architect). Mr. Coco advises that "NY state will not accept the application until we have approval from NYC. The architect for the library is setting up a meeting with NYC to review their concerns. Once the NY City concerns are addressed we will file with NYS."


Anonymous said...

Is it true that the town council awarded bids for geothermal BEFORE the town received permission from the DEC to use geothermal at the library. Does that make sense?

hal samis said...

It makes no sense, costs dollars but be calm.

I advised the Town that they needed an escape clause if they find that they were unable to drill.

Of course, since I suggested it there is no assurance that it was followed.

hal samis said...

From the OAT Minutes
Please note that the last minutes of OAT minutes that appear on the Library website are March 28, 2006.
Al Regula, who assures the Town Council, that everything is going great appointed to handle project communications.
OAT minutes that I have gotten have been supplied from sources who believe the Publio should know what's really going on.

December 12, 2005
page 5
"NYDEC Review. Triton also stated, following Site Plan Approval, the site drawings would need to be sent to the State for DEC review. DEC anticipated (Triton's estimate) review time is three months. TC stated that between a February 15, 2006 Site Plan submission, and a three month DEC review, the project schedule would slide back approximately 4.5 months."

February 27, 2006
page 6
"AKF filing paperwork for DEC permit. Permit to cover both Test Well and balance of wells (4). Andticipating 60-90 day permit approval process. Test well to be separate contract, balance of wells to be included in HVAC package."

March 13, 2006
"Status quo".

March 28, 2006
page 7
"TRC needs to plot longitude and latitudinal lines on siteplan for submission to DEC."

April 10, 2006
page 7
"TRC to complete plotting of longitudinal lines, AKF to complete application submission."

April 24, 2006
page 7
"TRC/AKF to finalize application within 2-3 weeks."

May 8, 2006
page 7
"intent is to be complete within another week".

unable to get OAT minutes for May 22, 2006 but summarized in chronology for June 5, 2006 meeting
page 8
May 22
"Longitudinal/latitudinal plot plans need to be completed by TRC for final submission. TC stated that further conversations with DEC led to that Library will not be exempt from fees. TC to recheck, as Library is a public facility."
June 5
"Application submitted."

Again, missing June 26 minutes
from the chronology
June 26
"Coordination with DEP review."
July 10
Control Point information required. To be further coordinated between TRC and AKF engineers."

This is now considered a CLOSED ITEM
and minutes direct you to "DELAWARE WATER TUNNEL COORDINATION section of OAT minutes. Things have been happening in this section too. Let's go back and see.

February 27, 2006
first appearance of DELAWARE WATER TUNNEL, appering in "CRITICAL ITEMS"
page 2
"BHA/TC to review permitting, regulations of working around existing water tunnel which runs beneath the property." Required by
March 27, 2006.

March 13, 2006
page 2
"BHA/TC attempting phone calls re: tunnel, as of yet to no avail."

March 28, 2006
page 2
TC stated that DEP appears to be experiencing learning curve relative to tunnel interface with increased geothermal well installations. No concrete contact made with DEP made to date. TC/BHA to continue efforts."
(Can't get them on the phone in the past month -- hs)

April 10, 2006
page 3
"BHA's civil engineer received correspondence from DEP relative to Water Tunnel. It appeared that the approximate location of the proposed geothermal wells would not cause interference with the tunnel, but submissions and contact with the DEP are to continue."

April 24, 2006
page 3
"Documentation of conversations between design team and DEP will be required during DEC permitting process."

May 8, 2006
page 3
"Coordination between DEP and DEC continues via application process."

May 22, 2006
"BHA/AKF to continue dialogue with DEP."

June 5, 2006
page 4
"Verification of exact location of aqueduct to be perfromed by Control Point, at the request of DEC, DEP.
BHA has contacted Control Point for this additional work."

June 26, 2006
"Control Point to verify location."

July 10, 2006
"Control Point to have verified within next two weeks."

July 24, 2006
"Control Point to have location of easement verified within two weeks.
State same beforehand, but apparently has had difficulty gaining access to area."

August 7, 2006
page 4
Control Point to gain access to Tunnel to verify location with GPS. Access through F. Barquet has been difficult to obtain. Control Point to access site Wednesday."

August 21, 2006
page 4
"Access to Tunnel provided to Control Point. TRC to make revisions based upon easement lines provided."
"Control Point verified location. TRC to change location later this week."

September 6, 2006
"Information to be incorporated into bid documents."

And that is the last OAT meeting minutes I have obtained. It is also a possibility that there were no OAT meetings since.

So what's the problem?
Permit me to end here while I go to pull up a recent email. I'm posting this and will be right back,
don't go far.

hal samis said...

Back again.

sent to a resident Tuesday, January 16, 2007, 2007, 2007

"This is in response to your letter of January 11, 2007. The Department of Environmental Conservation has not received applications to drill geothermal wells at the Town of Greenburgh public library. Any applications to drill that we do receive will be subject to review and necessary site-specific permit conditions. This will include any conditions that are necessary to protect the Delaware Aqueduct if the applications show and/or the New York City Department of Environmental Protection confirms that the Aqueduct is near the proposed wells. DEC has not published specific guidelines such as you requested for drilling near the Aqueduct; we will review the applicant's proposal. Information about permitting and drilling requirements is available on our website...."
Kathy Sanford
Chief, Permits Section

This generated a response from the architect Sal Coco on January 16.
Mr. Coco is the the "expert" on geothermal at Beatty, Harvey & Associaites so you know we're in good hands.

"NY State will not accept the application until we have approval from NY City. We are setting up a meeting with NY City to review their concerns. Once the NY City concerns are addressed we will file with NY State."

Don't worry, be happy.
Remember, this was listed as a critical item, not by me but by the Construction Manager, for March 27, 2006, 20006, 2006.

Once also listed as critical by December 31, 2005, 2005, 2005 was
the need to have the Library relocation plan in place. Look what happened as a result.

And, if ever the drilling gets underway, it still has to work, to produce usuable volumes of subterranean water.

But, at least we've got we've got a ground breaking ceremony for next Saturday. Even if we haven't got signed contracts or permission to drill. While the worst of winter lies ahead which will affect the pouring of concrete. Ok, we'll have the interior demolition done but at the cost of rushing the Library out of its home to vastly smaller space.

You've read for yourself what is available to the Town Council, certainly Diana Juettner knowing what Mr. Regula was not reporting, could have spilled the beans. But everything is fine, even when the facts show you that truth can be managed.

Juettner is a secret agent said...

Hal - you have asked why village resident and town councilmember diana juettner remains as the liasion from the the town board to the greenburgh (unincorporated divsion) library? It now appears that ms juettner is an undisclosed agent for either the nuclear power industry or "big oil" and will do whatever it takes to let this geothermal fantasy run its course. In 2020, when both nyc and nys have both said no to the geothermal option, the library board can announce a new information session to discuss how the former library of the future will be heated. Perhaps the information session will be held in a trailer owned by the parking district or in the rec room of one of the new senior residences built along central avenue after the zoning was changed following the enactment of a moratorium. That is the escape clause from this fiasco.

hal samis said...

Suddenly, the blog continues with the video portion but the audio remains silent.

I have posted the written record of the Library's pursuit of geothermal drilling and it is tales, promises, and no "meat". Al Regula, who is supposed to know and tell the Town Council, responds by asking Sal Coco what's happening?

This produces the answer that "we're working on it". But Sal, you said you were working on it over a year ago.

And where are those bloggers who read this and then immediately hide their heads in the sand?

It is not working out how they had hoped. This was supposed to be Mr. Feiner's waterloo. Oppose the Library; that'll cost him. However, some of those Edgemont civic leaders, and elsewhere, are beginning to realize that they not only backed the wrong horse but also that it is going to hurt them in their pocketbooks and getting in return, an inferior Library.

Particulary at risk are the Town Council members Bass, Barnes, Juettner and Sheehan who just didn't want to know anything bad.
Fortunately the record of their silence and muzzling the truth exists as public record.

And, construction hasn't even started.

Hope this blog continues as it will serve as the front row seat to the squirming of the Town Council and the Library Building committee, Jacobs, Palevski and Wolfert. Thing just ain't going to get better in the next two years.

And all Feiner wanted was to hold the referendum during the November balloting. Because he agreed that the Library did not understand their own project.

And, he continues to be right, even more right. Not only do they still not understand their own project, they don't even understand the concept of arranging suitable relocation space while the construction is underway. The idea was not to fall captive to a few vacant rooms but to be pro-active. This also includes the old admonition against putting all your eggs in two baskets: the old town hall and Frank's nursery. What follows from this happenstance planning is the result of walking around with egg on your face.

But that's what happens when you play the shell or monte game.
Always the said, never the fact; this replacing "always the red never the black".