Saturday, August 08, 2009

Week of August 2nd: Miscellaneous

The purpose of this Miscellaneous topic is to discuss any town related issues you feel are important that are not addressed in other topics. Please post any issues you wish to discuss in the comments section of this post. Thanks!

If you have any suggestions or comments regarding the blog, please contact me at ''. Thank you for your input.

-Marc Herman


greenburgh r.i.p. said...

we are one month away from the current town board being re-elected without opposition.

even in iran they have opposition.

politics is dead in greenburgh.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who is not satisfied with the town can run for office provided they collect the necessary signatures required by law. There is still time left to gather the signatures and run. If people are happy with their government and the decisions that are being made there won't be a contest. If people are unhappy there will be a race.

Anonymous said...

I just had a broker friend appraise my home for listing. First words out her mouth "Unfortunately, if you think the market is bad, it's worse here in Unincorporated Greenburgh. Taxes are too high and if you don't live in Edgemont (I don't) there just isn't enough reason to look to buy here. There are too many other good deals in better neighborhoods that offer more for your tax dollars right now."

After hearing that my house has depriciated by 110K (17%)in less than one year, she advised me to rent it out for a few years and hope the market comes back. She cautioned that even it the market came back a bit, the taxes will only continue to go up too, so I should think about getting out anyway. Take the loss.

wise move said...

wise decision
move now if you can.
renting is a sketchy idea.

hal samis said...

Question for the blog:

Can there be such a thing as a personal attack on anonymous?

Anonymous said...

Another try - lastweek it didn't get a response, maybe this week.

Dear Mr. Supervisor:

Just following up on some old postings:

What's the status of the $300,000 plus that the Town is owed by the Greenburgh Housing Authority? Has the Town commenced legal action to "protect" its claim or is the rest of unincorporated Greenburgh going to take it on the chin one more time?

What about all of the "stipends" that the Town has been paying? You never responded to the series of questions from months ago.
7/27/2009 12:03 PM

Anonymous said...

5:15 is concerned about a paper loss. Presumably he/she didn't buy his house last year, so the feared $110K is anticipated gain that will not be realized. If, on the other hand, 5:15 purchased his house in TOV (excepting Edgemont) after 2003, he should be very concerned about a Real Dollar loss should he try to sell his home now. All of us who purchased our houses in Hartsdale in 2003 and later (and have had a 60% increase in total property taxes during that period) are very concerned about not even being able to break even on the purchase price of our homes. This dilemma is exacerbated by the skyrocketing taxes combined with school district with a poor reputation that make selling a home almost impossible now. Bottom line: recent buyers in Hartsdale with children can't afford to stay or leave.

hal samis said...

Does anyone really think that the Town government cares about residents being unable to sell their homes?

Think: when you sell, you leave.
When you leave, you no longer vote.
When the value of your home goes down, this makes the entry for a fresh crop of newcomers possible.
Newcomers want to believe in the government and vote for those in office. "hon, the Town Supervisor just called to welcome us and ask if there's anything he can do..." Years later when they finally catch on, they'll be seeking to sell and move.

Do not remove dirty laundry from the washer. Instead,
repeat rinse cycle.

Anonymous said...

What do we need to do in order to remove that wall at Webb Field?

It's been in disrepair for months.

Maybe someone will crash into it.....actually, nahhh, then there will just be a big hole in it.

Anonymous said...

IMAGINE IF GREENBURGH CENTRAL 7 had a good reputation........ houses would appreciate, children would stay in their local school district, parents would get involved, a sense of belonging and pride would appear, etc etc....

Just Imagine.......

Anonymous said...

Regarding GC7

On May 17, 1954, when the Supreme Court issued its unanimous ruling in the case of Brown v. the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas
Justice Earl Warren said "Segregation of white and colored children in public schools has a detrimental effect upon the colored children. The impact is greater when it has the sanction of the law, for the policy of separating the races is usually interpreted as denoting the inferiority of the colored group. A sense of inferiority affects the motivation of a child to learn."

I disagree, it has the greatest impact on those that have to pay private school costs and rediculouly high GC7 school taxes…….

It creates inferiority to the parents who must work endless hours to be able to send their children to private school. Taking away from their quality of life, taking away from time spenat in the family setting.

Something must be done. HOW IN THE WORLD DOES SUCH A GOOD TOWN HAVE SUCH A BAD SCHOOL DISTRICT??? Its funny, jokes on us, all the surrounding school distrcis are rated excellent.

Please someone help me

whats wrong with GC7? said...

regarding C7

we hear repeated claims its a bad school district

can someone give specifics?

dont the graduates go to college?

are the teachers not qualified or dedicated?

would a charter school be something to explore?

hartsdale is doomed said...

hartsdale is already in trouble.
if edgemont becomes a village, hartsdale will have to declare bankruptcy. no one can help hartsdale. hartsdale is the equivalent of a failed nation state.

Anonymous said...

Juetner keeps getting more votes than her opponents. That is all that is needed to be a Town Board member.

Hartsdale Home Owner said...

Dear What's Wrong with GC7:
You have a very good but, sadly, irrelevant point. In fact there are many wonderful teachers in GC (it's not longer "7"), especially at the elementary school level. The Jackson School for K and 1st grade, for example, is excellent. Certainly GC's financial situation is in great shape, particularly considering one recent survey showed that GC spends as much, or more, per student as any school district in the U.S. (although this reflects under-enrollment in the school relative to the districts total population).

Now comes the "BUT" and the difficult part. Anyone with school age children or anyone family that has purchased a home in the area in the last half dozen years has been told by real estate agents and residents that GC is not a place for parents with advanced degrees and professions, who aspire to send their kids to prestigious colleges, to send their kids beyond early elementary school.
Unfortunately, as evidenced by the rate of children eligible for subsidized and free meals attending GC7 and the sizable - and growing - ESL population, this "class" and demographic reality is by 2009 not only self-perpetuating but has increasingly accelerated. As recently as the late 1990s you could find a number of children of professionals and relatively high-earners (of any race) graduating from GC. This is not the case any more.
Especially fascinating are the long-term trends in ethnic changes at GC, with a decrease in African American population and concomitant growth in students with Latin backgrounds, which suggest that the negative perception is less race based than class and income based (Anony at 12:53 above, to the contrary).

Fair or not, the very negative perceptions of GC are a reality that any family moving to the school district must come to grips with.

BTW 12:53's comment regarding Brown v. Board of Education is reprehensible and shows a complete lack of understanding of that milestone legal decision and its role in ending the shameful injustice of segregation.

been there, done that said...


I agree with some of what you say but you seem to place the blame on everything else but the school district itself.

Real estate agents: This is far from the truth. There is no incentive for a sales agent to say this to a perspective home buyer. It is also illegal to make such remarks and one can losee their license by doing so.

While the negative perception is a reality there are many to blame for it. Sure, the Hartsdale area in now comprised by families who send their children to private schools. It has evolved into this due to a need (GC unacceptable standards) or a desire for those in this community to send children to private schools no matter what SD these families live in.

Living in Hartsdale in the 1990’s, with children entering school, I can tell you that I was one of many parents who was determined to send my children to GC. While I will agree with you that there are many good, dedicated, teachers there, it became abundantly clear that my children were invisible. My kids came into Lee F. Jackson with basic reading and writing skills as do most children these days. Because of this, they were left behind in classrooms to amuse themselves while the rest of the class went to other programs to “catch up”.

I confronted the principal at the time , Dr. Webb, and asked why this is happening and what will be my kids be learning and when? I was told that there was no program for them; they were already at the learning level that they should be at. The whole emphasis in the school was to bring up the bottom and ignore all others.

This is only one example of my negative experience with GC. I have other examples which are more egregious but I will tell you that by the time I took my kids out, I was convinced that they were not wanted in the school.

The SD continues to find ways to ignore deflect and discourage other classes to enroll. It is interesting that there is a rise in ESL students. Where are they coming from? I know that some are using fraudulent TOV address to enroll or are living in illegal apartments.

So, now, what do we have here? A pretty big mess.

Aside from all of the negative social impacts, just based on the numbers alone it is apparent that the BOE does not do its job. You can’t be the most costly yet have the most disappointing results in the county and not believe something is very broken there.

Until the BOE reaches out to the community and stops making decisions based on the cries of only a handful of families, nothing will ever change and it only gets worse.

been there said...


Just so that people understand that things have not changed at GC I will tell you that I recently had to go up to Woodlands to get my child's working papers. I was told when I called that I could not just walk in and I had to call in advance. (not true) I called and asked if this was a good time, told yes, arrived, checked in with security and pointed to the school nurses office. Upon arriving the sectary looked at me, slammed her glass partition, called security and demanded to know why I was sent in. She proceeded to call several other people to complain. She had yet to greet me. After several minutes, she begrudging asked what she could do. I told her that we had just spoken and that I was here for working papers. She grabbed the materials from me and slammed the partition again. Then she proceed to complain to several people behind the glass. School nurse? Aide? "I don't understand why THESE people can't get this stuff at thier schools"

Can you imagine that?

Anonymous said...

Dear Been there,
I have heard of similar stories from parents that once had children in GC. It's very disturbing.

What is equally disturbing is that the town council, Paul in particular, follow the school districts party line when it comes to children and families in TOV GC.

They are treated at best as second class citizens, worst, completely ignored.
Complaints and concerns are swept away with a whisk of a hand. It's disgraceful.

There is a big disparity in class treatment here. So sad that it's at the children's expense.

Anonymous said...

Enough is enough!!!!!!
What in the hell is the mater with your audio system at town hall.

How can you have meetings broadcasted on television without a good sounding system.

If this goes on you had better have sign language taught in the library or where ever so maybe we could understand what is going on.

You do receive plenty of money from both cable companies to give us the best .
Maybe you need some professioal people to run the show or maybe you should get better equipment.

Anonymous said...

I agree with anon. It's not rocket science. Is it that Paul doesn't want us to really hear or understand what's going on at meetings?

Could be.

Hartsdale Home Owner said...

To "been there" and 8:39AM:

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. It's refreshing to get a thoughtful, reasoned discussion going here about our disfunctional town government-community-school district relationships. I had a positive experience with Jackson when my daughter attended K a few years ago, but I also realized that GC wasn't viable for my kids beyond Jackson. "Been there" raises a really important point I didn't think about w/r/t the focus on "remedial" education in GC, which really isn't the case in surrounding school districts. Again, this is a "class," income, immigration issue.

As far as realtors, in my experience they steer young "professional" families awary from GC to Ardesley and other "better" school district (where the prices and commissions are higher) and they are quite up front about how "you know that you can't send your kids to GC."

Paul repeatedly says he has no role or influence in GC and he is correct. However, there is a larger, long-term corrosive effect on the town that our Supervisor for Life ignores. For all surrouding towns (Scardale, Edgemont, Ardesley), the schools are the focus of the residents' identifciation with their towns, and interest and involvement in the community flows upward from the desire to preserve the reputation of their schools. Because the vast majority of GC district families are disconnected, even alienated, from the school district, I argue that this has contributed to resignation and indifference in the political sphere.

Anonymous said...

First it was the telecast and of late we have not been able to understand one word that is being said either by the board or the public.Having these meetings are only good if one attends them in person.

Paul has known about this problem for some time. I bet everything will be solved when he starts shaking hands for votes.
This town should have the best of the best but instead we have the worse all arround.

Get some good help. We pay enough taxes and monthly fees for cable but you refuse to take this matter in your own hands,

declare an emergency said...

i understand in the gc school district, the kids are bussed around every two years from one school to the next.

there is no doubt that once hartsdale lost its connection to a school, it began its long and continuing decline.

what to do? one start would be to re-create neighborhood schools for grades k-6. explore charter schools. explore remote learning.

sell the land where the board of ed sits and use the money to create something new.

homeowners in GC should convene a summit on how to turn things around. time is of the essence.
you cannot sell your homes. only an improved school district will save you.

if you fail to act, you will perish.

Anonymous said...

Dear Hartsdale Homeowner,

“interest and involvement in the community flows upward from the desire to preserve the reputation of their schools. Because the vast majority of GC district families are disconnected, even alienated, from the school district, I argue that this has contributed to resignation and indifference in the political sphere.”

How right you are!

Regardless of what came first that resulted in this community's sad condition, what we are now saddled with is a SD and town government that enable each other to continue in a downward spiral. Both fail miserably at creating a diverse, involved, healthy, valuable, community while making it clear to anyone questioning the motives or seeking change, to back away.

How many posts do we see here about programs Paul initiates where they are designed for a very small target demographic? Xposure comes to mind. There is no way that a program like this is intended for all TOV kids. There would be no way we could afford to make it widely available but this doesn’t concern Paul. So, program information is controlled and limited to one group and Paul says it’s open to all. Information on the program only available at the GC schools and TDYCC. Transportation to the program only provided to those kids at GC.

I was told by a GC BOE member that the district pays for outside SAT prep courses for its HS juniors. This BOE member suggested that this information be sent to all TOV GC families that have 11th grade children so that they could take advantage of it. It was vehemently shot down.

It cost me hundreds of dollars for my 11th grader to take this course. You bet your a$$ had I known, I'd have been up to GC getting her signed up.

In both cases I present there is no misunderstanding that a particular class was deliberately being denied information/access therefore the right to participate in something that their tax dollars pay for.

As for the 2 year schools? The only argument I’ve heard for this craziness is that parents do not want the younger children either riding the bus or sharing the same building with the older kids. Make what you want out of that.
There was a plan to create 2 k-6 schools but the parents of Fairview fought against it. Parents could choose whether to send their kids to either Bailey or Highview. Eventually, it would have brought back the entire community to the SD. Frightening, right? How would they pay for these newly enrolled kids? The kids of those families paying school taxes!

Both the school district and town government enable each other to behave very, very badly. They both keep their dirty little secrets as a means of preserving their little kingdoms. Outsiders allow it to go on. Yes, many are indifferent and complacent. Those who aren't are downtrodden.

Anonymous said...

9:22AM is correct. The audio has been terrible for Town Board meetings and has been getting worse. Last night I could barely hear some people.

Please have this corrected as I prefer to watch meetings from the comfort of my home rather than slepping to Town Hall. This is a nice convenient way for me to stay in tune with what is going on in town.

Thanks in advance!

Anonymous said...

All areas of town need to meet and find ways to work together. The schools, the town board, the town departments, TDYCC, the library. There is too much alienation of each other. ANd who suffers.... our kids, our seniors, our taxpayers. This MUST STOP NOW!

We all want our town to have a successful future. These times are causing all of us to struggle and stretch our hard-earned dollars.

This town has all its functionality isolated from each other rather than working with each other.

Someone needs to step up to the plate and make this happen. Who should that be? Who has the leadership ability to lead through integrity and for the better of Greenburgh.

This is NOT an easy task, nor shall it be corrected overnight, or in one person's administrative term. It needs to be a sustained environment, cultured and natured to allow growth.

I challenge any one person to take that lead. Take on the nay-sayers. Fight through the negativity that exists in this town. BE POSITIVE. MAKE CHANGE. JUST DO IT.

close immoral tdycc said...

lets start with closing the immoral and divisive tdycc
bernstein is right - why does the town have two recreation departments?

hard to believe in 2009 obama america!

credit is due said...

kudos to garfunkel who said on lohud:
if weems cannot handle signatures how can she handle greenburgh.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Garfunkel from Tarrytown please tell me does Your buddy Feiner know how to run Greenburgh,

Yes he has run this place to the ground.Anyone with a little brains could do a better job.
Gee maybe you fit into that category.

Anonymous said...

A few people may think Greenburgh is in the pits but most of us are happy. Some of you have tried to beat up on Paul for years. You haven't been successful. You have done everything you can to end his tenure. You failed. You know he and his team can't be beat. Why don't you admit it. Most of us like Greenburgh the way it is and like our government.

Anonymous said...

The democratic party does not have any good candidates to run for any position in Greenburgh.
Yes we are stuck with the Feiner team but you have to remember the best have been unseated .
I do think that something will come up that this team will be going byebye.

Anonymous said...

You no I went to school in GC-7 and it was well over 20 to 25 years ago....Jeez I am getting old!

Nevertheless it was like a country club back then, but the one thing that stood out then was the teachers cared! They took the time to teach you and not merely work for a paycheck.

We had Timmy Weinberg, Lois Bronz, Barbara Perry, and a host of others. These were the kind of teachers who took time to pull you by the coat and check your behavior or even call your parents and let them no there was a problem. Not because they disliked you, but because they cared about you and your education.

Hell, now if you check a kid, the kid will go and report you or want to fight you, and if you call the parents they blame you or the school.

So don't go blaming "Brown vs Board of Ed.. 12:53 or Paul Feiner, maybe you should start with the parents that are not taking the time to teach their kids some manners, discipline and helping them with homework!

I went to Woodlands to get my transcripts and my mouth dropped! These kids are rude and have no respect!

Get better people on the Board of Ed. that want to make a difference!

better people? said...

better people... like anonymous?

hal samis said...

While the Town has been "aggressively pursuing" unlicensed contractors (see Feiner post currently as the bottom of the home page), the Westchester County Board of Health has visited the Xposure program's ice cream carts. Seems that Mr. Thomas ignored earlier warnings to get them licensed per existing laws.

Now he will have to pay the fees and get a license. I'm sure the business plan factored these into the p&l pro forma. One might argue whether setting such an example is good training for 8 year old entrepreneurs. Especially those that had considered becoming unlicensed contractors when they grew up. But how about Mr. Thomas? Does he consider himself above the law?

Where is Mr. Feiner's and the Town Board's concern when they allow such unlicensed activity to occur on Town property, conducted by a Town-endorsed after school program. They can't say they were unaware because they were sent a warning by me a month ago.

In fact, if an example of good government adminsitration is to be lauded, it the County Board of Health which responds immediately to complaints -- as it did earlier when I reported that the Greenburgh Library had opened without sinks in the rest rooms. A minor detail that the Town's Buildings Department had overlooked.

But what kind of a government takes pride promoting that unlicensed contractors are being pursued when it makes no pretense of running its own house according to law? Just because the Town Board lives in a "glass house" and throws stones at others is by no means a representation that we enjoy transparent government.

Words to the wise:

You never know when the Xposure program might receive an official visit from those administering child labor laws. I'm sure that Mr. Thomas and the Town Board have this base covered just as well as they pursue unlicensed food vendors.

Like the lottery, you never know.

about xposure said...

i believe it was francis sheehanigans who said Xposure was probably the greatest program ever promoted by the town.


Anonymous said...

xposure is a good program. Perfect? No. Nothing is. Better than most after school programs. Definitely.

Anonymous said...

You ask about the problem with GC7?

Well most analysts would say start at the top of the organization. The folks that keep electing the same "characters" year after year to the Board of Education are as much to blame as the BOE itself.

You can not keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect to get a different result.

However, at the end of the day,the existing Board of Education is the prime reason why GC7 is in the shape that it is in, with absolutely little expectations that it will ever get better than the existing bad shape that it is in.

Have you ever seen Cora's cable TV show? Aside from embarrassing, it gives a lot the clues that one can use to assess the problem with the way that she operates.

Have you ever seen Terry's behavior on the televised meetings. How would you like every GC7 student to model that behavior? Not likely.

The identification of the GC7 problem is probably the easy part.

Knowing how and when the voters will elect sufficiently skilled representation is the hard part.

forum needed on C7 said...

thats not much of an answer.
can you give chapter and verse.

we have heard that the school district teaches to the lowest common denominator.

that it has no culture of excellence.

but these are generalities.

what is the real problem. you can be anonymous here so feel free to say what you think is the true problem.

if its racial. so be it.

TaxPayer said...

Paul,who pays for the Police Officer to direct traffic in front of the Elwood Day Care From 3:30 to 5 pm daily ?

Anonymous said...

Elmwood pays for it.

Anonymous said...

Where does that money end up?
Is the police person in uniform?
Is a regular police vehicle used by the police person?

Anonymous said...


There are some real "chapter and verse" written here regarding GC. What exactaly are you looking for?

Anonymous said...

Have you ever seen Terry's behavior on the televised meetings. How would you like every GC7 student to model that behavior? Not likely.

There it is. Who do you think is voting the Terry's in. How about the Cory's? The parents of the kids that attend private school? NOT. Sadly they do not vote on GC matters.

It's the parents of the kids who attend GC. So the question begs to be asked.

What is it that a Terry or Cory has to bring to the table that these parents feel makes them sound BOE members?

If you can answer this question you can find the root of the problem at GC.

Anonymous said...

Once again our town crier has nothing else to do than attack a program that benefits Greenburgh's kids.... This does NOT surprise me.

Hal - Have you actually visited one of the Greenburgh Tropical Fantasy carts? Have you seen how the carts and area are well maintained? Have you seen how the kids speak with customers? Have you watched as they set up and broke the carts to start and end each day?

Let me answer FOR YOU... NO YOU HAVE NOT! You could care less what our kids are ACTUALLY Learning. You insist on being that little gnat that just bites and stings, adding NOTHING but NEGATIVITY. YOu foul mouth and pen need be IGNORED.

Governments should always look for ways to take care of its elderly and its youth. Did you miss that point in Economics 101? Or did you just pay for a degree out of a cereal box?

Anonymous said...

Hal, Hal, Hal. Your 8/4 comment about the town not caring about whether or not homes can be sold is subjective at best and inane at worst. I highly doubt the town is looking to drive down home prices so that they can keep voters - here's a news flash, WE'RE IN A RECESSION WITH A DEAD HOUSING MARKET. ALL OVER.

As far as the exposure ice carts, gee, I wonder who brought the board of health in. So glad you are being vigilant, Hal. Here's another news flash: I saw a lemonade stand over in Poet's Corner the other, hope you hop on your bike this weekend, charge over and take names and numbers. You'll show those kids yet. So glad you're on the job, Hal.

Anonymous said...

Dear 8:41,

Let me ask you a question. Do YOU feel good about knowing that only SOME children are taken care of by are government?

You must based on your rant.

Sleep well knowing that most of the children in TOV have been denied the oppurtuinity to participate in Greenburgh Fantasy Carts. Good night.

Anonymous said...

the above comment was for 8:14

Anonymous said...

And certain times of the year, the Girl Scouts sell cookies at the train station. I sincerely hope the next time you see any of these offenders you line them up and make a mass citizen's arrest....unless, of course, you are afraid of getting smacked down by their mothers.

Anonymous said...

To 8:45 and 8:46,

I understand but at least there is a group doing something. Something is better than nothing. Perhaps this can lead to a town wide program. Who knows? Perhaps we can ask and make some positive moves to make that happen in the future.

ALL town kids and ALL town seniors should be targeted for applicable programs.

the real lesson said...

the ice cream carts were illegal.
the county inspected and required permits and fees
this was done

why wasnt it done right the first time?

thats the real lesson to be learned.

samis was right here. Xposure was exposed as a corner cutter.

Anonymous said...

What makes you think it was Samis that did the deed? Any town ice cream vendor worth his popsicles could have done it. These xposure ice cream carts, plus inventory, are both paid for with taxpayer money. Why should a government subsidized business that competes with me not have to comply with the laws in this town that the rest of us have to comply with? These kids aren't learning jack about business. All they're learning is the value of a handout.

Anonymous said...

The question is not whether the Xposure program is good for the kids or bad for them, or whether it is used only to Fairview kids or to a wider public. That is the wrong question.

The right question is whether the town should be funding educational programs, as Xposure bills itself, or whether the town should leave education to the schools.

Samis is right to criticize Xposure.

hal samis said...

I'm sorry if there was any confusion; of course it was me who called the Board of Health.

I called them only AFTER warning the Town that the carts needed the proper licensing (mobile permits) which they ignored. Why should the Xposure program be exempt from the law when Mr. Feiner posts on this blog how proud he is of the Building Department for going after unlicensed contractors. One "class" is selling ice cream without a permit and are doing so as a learning experience. The other "class" is doing it without a permit and are doing it as their livelihood.

The public needs to be protected in both cases.

If the Xposure program truly wants kids to learn how to operate a business (something they need to know at their age?) then they should also learn how to operate a business legally. And that should also include complying with child labor laws and minimum wage.
And when the Town permits vendors to operate businesses on TOWN PROPERTY without the proper licensing, then taxpayers are at risk from potential legal liability while also paying taxes to maintain the Xposure program. This is in no way comparable to unaffiliated kids selling lemonade on the street and the anonymous blogger knows it.

Or maybe the Town should also allow kids to sell drugs on the street -- a much more profitable enterprise which anonymous could defend because the kids might be using the profits toward college.

As for the Girl Scouts, you pick one of the top ten "institutions" that has the highest percentage of revenue lost to overhead -- not overhead for charitable works or programs for girls but overhead to enhance the well-being of the administration and yes, if the Town's withdrawn business permit fees were instead enacted per Mr. Madden, I would have demanded that the Girl Scouts pay these fees as well. But again, anonymous knows that the Girl Scouts are not an entity that unicorporated Greenburgh TAXPAYERS are supporting so they can sell cookies at the train station.

Get real; surely you can find some legitimate grounds to find fault with me.

Maybe the two year 31% tax increase was due to something I said at a Town Board meeting?

Samis must run said...

please run for office. we need you more than we need Weemsy.

Anonymous said...

Stupid question time -- why doesn't Mr. Feiner ever answer any of the questions posted on the blog? What the heck is the purpose of this blog anyway????

Anonymous said...


You REALLY have NO clue on how to be a human being. Your thoughts are reprehensible as well as obnoxious.... to EVEN suggest that kids sell drugs in town... I loathe your comments and your thoughts. YOU should be banned from ANY BLOG.

I still think you had your lunch money stolen one too many times in school. What happened? Mommy could not protect you? Or should I replace "could" with "would"?

It's a shame people like you waste your energy adding a negative tone to ANYTHING that is good.

As far as the comments of bloggers here that want you to run for office... I would LOVE to see you embarass yourself. You have about enough people wiling to vote for you as for Saddam Hussein. GET MY DRIFT?

hal samis said...

I get your drift. You're a piece of deadwood.

Anonymous said...

LOL! Honestly, I'm amused that Hal called the BOH on the cart. He's absolutely right. How in the world acn you teach kids good business practices when you break all of the rules.

Oh wait just a minute. Could it be that the town break the rules for this program or these kids often? Maybe this is why they think they are exempt.

It's good to see our tax dollars being put to good use.

draft samis said...

if we could get samis to run, he would win
100s of his supporters would walk the streets day and night to get rid of tax and spend no record diana the sphinx juettner

hal - please please reconsider!!

samis is beholden to no one
he is a straight shooter who does his homework

Anonymous said...

Samis - a straight shooter? JUST WHO are YOU thinking of?

Samis does NOT have what it takes to be a leader. Someone with the foul mouth and poison pen such as he, needs to stay under a rock somewhere and call for his mommy.

He can ONLY critize. He can NOT lead anyone with his attitude.

What do YOU say to THAT Hal? Got ANY good ideas WITH a plan to implement them? I think not!!! That would actually cause you to put your mind onto doing good. You MUCH PREFER to twist the truth when you speak or write. Isn't it MUCH SAFER this way for you. YOu would NEVER be able to stand up in front of this town and ACTUALLY MAKE a difficult decision. Who could you criticize then? Yourself? What a concept.

hal samis said...

I guess in the eyes of 8:36 I'm moving up the ladder last week from lying to this week's twisting the truth.

But let's not be picky, I await from him examples of either my lying or twisting the truth.

Certainly he can't object to my pointing out that Kevin Morgan gets a health insurance buyout AND gets the health insurance too -- both ways costing taxpayers.

He doesn't act very disabled does he?

And Ms. Brown, speaking at the last Town Board meeting? Open government? Guess she's already cozying up to the Supervisor for his support. But that couldn't be lying or twisting the truth because it looks par for the course when it comes from the dais.

Now if I were to run, 2011 would be the year to do it...

Let's see what could I do to demonstrate leadership. Hmmm. How about eliminating overtime from retirement calculations. Ouch!

Anonymous said...

Hal.... You would NEVER run. You are TOO SCARED to give up your cozy little twisted world.

Stay under your rock where you belong.

hal samis said...

Still don't have any examples of my lies or truth twisting do you.

samis is the answer said...

why are sheehan, juettner and morgan all double dipping on health insurance?

morgan gets health insurance from the town then gets a rebate for what it would cost the town to provide him with coverage as a town board member

this is scandalous and the only person who is not afraid to comment on this is SAMIS

SAMIS is greenburgh's only hope!!!!!!!

ed krauss said...

Dear 9:07pm on 8/5:

You say," most of us like Greenburgh the way it is and like our government."

Since "most of us DON'T BOTHER TO VOTE," what double secret survey data do you have to support your pronouncement?

We had a $19,000,000 referendum on the ballot, and fewer than 6,000 out of approximately 25,000+ unincorporated voters voted. Nevertheless, the referendum passed. Does that mean "most of us like spending nearly $20,000,000 on a new library?

Two + two does not = 22. And the questionable "logic" of you comment is equally absurd.

Freedom of the press is a cornerstone of our democracy, but when you shoot off your mouth it should come with responsiblity.

ed krauss said...

Dear Mr. Feiner and those who sit on either side of you on the dais:

At the last town board meeting I asked you to tell me (as well as all present and at home viewing +the press):

* what are you doing, if anything to recoup the nearly $2,000,000 you illegally gave to the Valhalla school district?

* what, if anything, are you doing to recoup the $300,000-$400,000 from the Greenburgh Housing Authority for "private" policing supplied by the Greenburh PD?

*what, if anything, are you doing to prepare for the Fortress Bible court decision which will be in the 7-figure area?

* what, if anythig, are you doing to solidify YOUR (not anyone elses) projection of $1,000,000 in "fees" from the OSI leaseback deal?

If you remember (and I can't blame you for NOT remembering) you added a $750,000 revenue line to your budget for moneies "coming" from sale of town properties. We both know THAT NEVER HAPPENED! "Betting on the come," or "drawing to an inside straight" is a gambling casino's idea of an IDEAL sucker. Putting in $1,000,000,(again, which you and I know is beyond a Don Quixote "reach) is a political move and thoroughly dishonest.

You and your team are running UNOPPOSED. You can't lose. So why not deal off the top of the deck, and be honest.

You keep giving "lip service" to "trying to save money," department by department. Well the exeutive and legislative branch can actually help.

Anxiously awaiting your reply. Ask a question. Get an answer. THAT'S WHAT OPEN GOVERNMENT IS ALL ABOUT.

Anonymous said...

Ed, this is why the employees of the Town (except the precious police) couldn't get a raise for 2009. He needs it for the fortress bible court decision. I've been saying that all during negotiations but only got stupid looks from the Town when questioned about it.

Anonymous said...

Dumb question: $750K can be added to a projected revenue budget line when the money is not solidly in hand BUT how can that projected revenue be used for known, actual expenditures?

Anonymous said...

8/09/2009 9:57 AM,
The "precious police" contract with the cost of living raises was drawn up about 4 years ago.

Anonymous said...

Dear Ed,

It appears to me that everyone had the choice to vote for or against the library. Now that the library HAS BEEN BUILT, isn't it time to get OFF THAT BANDWAGON of the vote? IT IS REALITY! We need to make it work for us as a community.

ed krauss said...

11:27 AM What are you talking about? All I said was HE increased the revenue side with a phantom $3/4 of a million dollars, which would go toward decreasing the need for funding, thereby lowering the tax increase. Comprende? Understand?Ubersetze?

It's really RUDE to call a question DUMB when you clearly don't understand the import.

2:32Pm like your anonymous 11:27 compadre, you too don't understand. I s-i-m-p-l-y said fewer than 10% of the electorate voted for
referendum,THEREFORE you can't come to the conclusion EVERYBODY is satisfied.

Anonymous said...

Whats going on with the book mobile?

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Ed,

A horse is horse of course of course. You still need to understand that the library HAS BEEN BUILT. Let's move on. Or would you prefer to be stuck in the past with Hal. Go Back To The Future.

Anonymous said...

Ed Krauss and Hal Samis are not trying to unbuild the library. They are trying to point out the failures of judgment involved, because some of the same people are still making judgments.

Quit attacking the truthtellers. If not for them, many more disasters would happen -- and have happened!

Anonymous said...

To 4:34PM

Are you saying that I should NOT disagree with them? Well, last I read, this was STILL AMERICA. I have a low tolerance for negativity which is what those two seem to spew.

hal samis said...

It's the same America for all of us.

Anonymous said...

Dear 1:51 - Let's see what you precious people jerk the Town out of in 2010. Hope your binding arbitrator has some common sense and considers us taxpayers.

Anonymous said...


You are correct that it is the same America for all of us. Thank god for that.

Anonymous said...

9:20 The America that you live in is under the dictatorship of Feiner.

Samis and Krauss have had the guts to fight the system by telling the taxpayers the truth.

You must be deaf ,dumb and blind if you think that this is what we all worked for a Feiner way of living.

Yes we are stuck with this regime for some time until there comes along someone that will challenge the dictator.

Leave the messengers alone unless you have some true comments to discuss that will enlighten the residents as Samis and Krauss do.

Anonymous said...

I am voting for NONE OF THE ABOVE

Anonymous said...

Whether you vote or not the Feiner dynasty will continue and we will still be plagued with a government that we have no voice.
There is nothing out there to help us so we have to sit back and allow all our hard earned money to go byebye.
We can only hope that there will be one investigation that will kick the whole bunch out of Greenburgh.
The coverups are too many.

voting said...

i am voting for anonymous

Anonymous said...

There is ALWAYS a write in vote.

hal samis said...

If you vote for anonymous as a write-in candidate, take care to give the exact date and time.

Anonymous said...

Fascinating news today about the "affordable" housing desegration settlement agreed to by Westchester Co. This could potentially impact some of our villages. Does Paul have a position on this dramatic milestone?

Anonymous said...

8/10/2009 4:40 PM

hope your this happy when you get your tax bill from Westchester Co

Anonymous said...


I was thinking of adding YOU as my write in vote. YOU would bring SOOO much leadership ability to make ALL the RIGHT changes in Greenburgh.

And I would hope you do NOT receive as MUCH FLACK as you give out.

Anonymous said...

Dear 8/10/2009 4:40 PM:

There is a much more important proposal before the State legislature that would grant significant property tax relief for owners / occupiers (most of the people in the Town of Greenburgh)of residential properties. Where does the Supervisor stand? Can't find a press release or a posting on this blog. What about Juettner and Sheehan/ Why hasn't there been a resolution in support? After all, there was a resolution on Dafur a few years ago. But nothing on this proposal. Hmm, I wonder why. My guess is that because it might negatively impact commercial properties and these people have and continue to contribute to the Supervisor's "war chest", he's not about to "bite the hand" that helps keep in office, collecting a pay check, building up retirement credits, getting fully paid health, dental, eye insurance, etc.

It's a great world out there, especially in unincorporated Greenburgh.

read all about it said...

you can read all about it in that hulking mess called a library on route 119

(unless the newspapers have yellowed)

Anonymous said...

Regarding Greenburgh Central School District, it's actually a good system. The problem (which is not really a problem) is that all the other school districts that serve Unincorporated Greenburgh - particularly Pocantico and Edgemont - are significantly better.

Anonymous said...

Hal, Hal, Hal. I had to get away from this blog for a few days for some relative calm (think AFGHANISTAN) after reading your comments. Now that I have rested please note the following:

I have no clue where you get your rants about the Girl Scouts. I mention a not for profit group and amazingly you are able to point out how mismanaged they are. As you are the one always ranting PROVE IT, well, PROVE IT. You also still need to 'fess up that the real reason you don't go after them at the train station is that you are scared of the moms. Yet again, no institution is safe from the ever present Samis conspiracy theories.

As far as removing o/t earnings from pension calculations, you clearly do not understand how compensation is defined in most defined benefit retirement plans. Final retirement benefits are typically based on the final 5 years of compensation, and a number of components can be included in compensation. Overtime should be included - it's EARNINGS. I cannot fathom what your rationale would be from excluding it. I suppose you think commissioned sales people should only include their draw/base salary when defining their compensation (geez, I hope you are in sales for a living).

And what is the commotion over Kevin Morgan's health benefits? He earned what he now has while on the force and is also entitled to the other benefits while serving on the Board - I'd like to see one of you nay sayers put in that kind of time for a small salary that probably computes to minimum wage once add up the hours and do the math.

And finally, the issue with Exposure...first of all, they sell ices, not ice cream. There may have been some misinformation provided at the outset. So forget the conspiracy theory and drop the attitude that these kids are being taught to skirt the system.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Anonymous said...

Hey Hal....

Do you FEEL the finger pointed at you? If so, WHICH ONE?

I still think I will write YOUR name in when I get to the voting booth. You can COUNT on MY VOTE!

Anonymous said...

Sorry 5:12 the supervisor stated on this blog that the children in the Exposure program will be taught how to make and sell ice cream.
This will be done at the library.
Hal did not make this up.

It was ice cream and not ices.

Anonymous said...

Are you hungry? If the answer is yes – take advantage of a new program started by Xposure Greenburgh (the group that runs our after school program at the Theodore Young Community Center). Children who are not in camp are participating in the Greenburgh Tropical Fantasy Italian Ice/Ice Cream Student Entrepreneurial training program. They are learning important business skills and will be selling ice cream at the Greenburgh library on Monday, Wednesday and Fridays from noon to 4:30 PM

Anonymous said...

I stand so corrected by your Philadelphia-like comments about the ice cream. I certainly hope this makes you all happy. So Feiner got it wrong. Whoo hoo! Big deal.

One other thing I wanted to add to the poster about the 10% who voted about the referendum. Big deal on that too...the fact is that IT PASSED. AND THE LIBRARY IS HERE AND BUILT. So as I see it you have 2 choices: continue to moan and groan and do nothing vis a vis volunteering your time and efforts to help correct all the wrongs you see, or, join the positive people in this community who recognize that there are fixes to be made, and work to make those fixes in a positive, constructive way.

As I said before, you should all be ashamed of yourselves for your petty attitudes.

shame on me said...

shame on me for bemoaning a 31% tax increase
shame on me for objecting to a nutrition program that feeds other towns at my expense
shame on me for not singing glory hallelujah to the millions the board gave away to the valhalla school district so they can take booze cruises
shame on me for not seeing the wisdom of allowing me the privilege of paying for the tdycc while allowing everyone else to use it

for shame

Anonymous said...

*applauds wildly for 8:04*

hal samis said...

Dear 5:12,

1) I was wondering why we hadn't kurd from you; now I know: you were away smuggling arms into Afghanistan, nothing fezs me.
2) But you should know that someone impersonating anonymous was posting in your place
3) You're the one who says I lie; I don't have to prove what I say, you have to disprove it. In any case, the Xposure vs. the Girl Scouts is one of using Town property when unlicensed. But what's this about conspiracies -- have you found out that Ray Thomas is really a den mother?
4) There's no law broken if earnings is defined as salary before overtime. Simply, the taxpayers would save a lot of money if all employees of the Town and the various Districts were paid retirement benefits based solely on salary -- not on overtime especially when the last five years represents the highest base salary component of their careers. By excluding the
"big payoff", the creation and dispensing of these goodies would not be subject to as much scrutiny.
Hey, salesmen, good comp. Are those on draw now getting overtime?

As for Kevin Morgan, ok let's do the math (rounded for simpletons).
Let's say that Kevin gets a total of $30,000 a year (salary, insurance payout, office perks) and we'll forget retirement also to keep it simple.
Because he is such an important person, we'll pay him a minimum wage more than others less fortunate, say $10. per hour.

Now we could say that if he is fulfilling what should be by reason a part-time job (he and the others on the Board claim other employment) then they shouldn't even be entitled to health coverage but then the Town Board is very generous with the Town Board.

In any case $30,000 a year divided by $10 an hour shows us that he is working 3,000 hours a year of when divided by 52 weeks, that is just about 58 hours a week.

So to follow up what you wrote:
" I'd like to see one of you nay sayers put in that kind of time for a small salary that probably computes to minimum wage once add up the hours and do the math."
I did the math and guess what, I don't think Kevin is working 58 hours a week in addition to his other job with the County.

Let me save you the typing by preparing your response -- all you have to do is cut and paste:
"There goes Samis lying and twisting the truth again..."

As for Xposure, what I wrote on August 6 @ 10:13 was " One might argue whether setting such an example is good training for 8 year old entrepreneurs." Given that the Town was warned in advance that licensing was required, you, as usual, are mis-stating the original; here's what you wrote: "So forget the conspiracy theory and drop the attitude that these kids are being taught to skirt the system." I had hoped that it was clear that those who are charged with teaching the kids (in this case how to operate a business) are skirting the system; not unusual for a program founder found lacking a college degree.

There's a late afternoon flight leaving for Pakistan if you've got some vacation time left.

Charlie Cohen said...

Just a little comment about your posting:
"ok let's do the math (rounded for simpletons).
Let's say that Kevin gets a total of $30,000 a year (salary, insurance payout, office perks) and we'll forget retirement also to keep it simple."
Is your 30K the total you assume or just the Salary?
If it is the total; then, you need to rework the numbers!

If you have not heard, in NY State minimum wage for labor performed for the State or other entitites under labor law is trice your assumption per hour rate after all benefit additions.

Anonymous said...

Hal Hal Hal.....

You are starting to put words in my mouth.... now take the foot out of yours.

hal samis said...

From anonymous @5:12

"Because he is such an important person, we'll pay him a minimum wage more than others less fortunate, say $10. per hour."

From Hal Samis @9:02
"Because he is such an important person, we'll pay him (Kevin) a minimum wage more than others less fortunate, say $10. per hour."

From Charlie Cohen @10:19
"If you have not heard, in NY State minimum wage for labor performed for the State or other entitites under labor law is trice your assumption per hour rate after all benefit additions."

From Anonymous @10:58
"You are starting to put words in my mouth.... now take the foot out of yours."

Well it's true Mr. Cohen, I haven't heard but your information is a little vague. What does "other entities under labor law" mean; what does "after all benefit additions" mean and, again in simple terms (meaning apples to apples) what is the dollar equivalent by your understanding? And is "work performed for the State or other entities" work that is paid as salaries to government employees or what is paid to the employees of independent contractors?

I leave you with this thought from Forrest Gump: "Stupid is as stupid does" and to pay Kevin Morgan more than minimum wage is a mistake wherever and however mandated.

None of which justifies collecting for insurance not taken because you are already having it provided by the Town.

Even without walking all over the Town, my suspicion is that taxpayers don't want tax increases and a government which says it is listening would not be a government which would tolerate this needless insurance gimme, or stipends for work performed during work hours; a woman to hang pictures (art?) in Town Hall and an after school program provided by the Town instead of by the School District.

hal samis said...

Sorry, my mistake. This was the quote from anonymous @5:12 re Kevin Morgan meant to appear at the beginning.

"I'd like to see one of you nay sayers put in that kind of time for a small salary that probably computes to minimum wage once add up the hours and do the math"

Anonymous said...

Once again Hal, you do NOT surprise me nor do you cease to disappoint me. Your foul and nasty attitude is a detriment to anything good that goes on in our town. Can you ONCE say SOMETHING positive about ONE THING? It appears you can't. I wonder f your mother would be taken back by your lack of concern for others.

Anonymous said...

Hey Hal. How did you become such an expert in EVERYTHING? Please tell me your secret. I want to be like you when I grow up!

Anonymous said...

Hal, Hal, Hal. You may have done the math, but you did it wrong. Along with your misunderstanding of how pension benefits should be computed, you also have no clue on how to compute an hourly wage. Before you run for office, GOD FORBID win and start making some decisions, sit up straight and listen.

When computing an hourly wage for someone who's pay is quoted on annual terms - oh, I don't know, let's say $30,000 - you take the # of hours available to work during a year which is typically 2080 for a full time employee. And Hal, before you stroke out try checking that number out. REMEMBER I DON'T NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING (see your own response) - whoo hoo!

So doing the math using 2080 gives us an hourly rate of 14.42. So figure it out from there, if you need more help let me know.

Hopefully later on I'll have a little more time to give you more help on how to define pension benefits. By time I was thinking 4-5 hours, but I have an appointment with the National Guard - trying to persaude them to coordinate a SWAT attack on the pesky ice sellers at the library. I'll keep you posted.

Anonymous said...

Well we will have affordable housing throughout Westchester.

I do hope the county will do the proper investigation to allow those who are seeking housing get the benefit of the plan.
Here in Greenburgh the town refuses to investigate those who are presently living in these dwellings.
Many of them have very good jobs with a very good income which does not allow them to savor affordable housing.
Check out the cars that are parked in those complexes .
I remember at one town meeting when some of the renters spoke up and refused the towns request to show their tax returns, WHY??
Cause they make too much money.
Many of them have been lying for many years they should be kicked out.
I"m sure that the county will be more diligent than Greenburgh in taking care of the poor.
Greenburgh has becomes a free for all when it comes to getting what you can when you can no questions asked .Yes we the taxpayers have to pay more and more to keep Feiners free programs going.
Whether it be housing,free meals ,free programs at the center and free child care at the other center.

Come to Greenburgh where you can get what you want regardless of how much money you earn.
The representatives just want votes.

Lynyrd Skynyrd said...

If I leave here tomorrow
Would you still remember me?
For I must be travelling on, now,
'Cause there's too many taxes I am broke, see.?
But, if I stayed here with you, Paul,
You just won’t treat me the same.
'Cause I'm in Freeburgh now,
And this town you will not change.
Lord knows, you won’t change.

Bye, bye, its been a sweet love.
Though this feeling I can't change.
But please don't take it badly,
'Cause Lord knows Pauls to blame.
But, if I stayed here with you folks,
Things will always be the same.
Cause you’re as broke too here in FREEBURGH now,
And this town you'll never change.
And this crap you can not change.
Lord knows, it won’t change.
Lord help me, it can't change.

Anonymous said...

I really do not understand the issue around TDYCC - and people saying it doesn't benefit them or they can't use it. What is stopping you from walking in the front door?

Try being honest because I think we all know the answer.

As far as Exposure and the question of whether or not the schools should be delivering eductional programs vs the TDYCC....are you kidding? The program is needed, and for whatever reason the school can't deliver it, what is so wrong with TDYCC doing it? And when you say your children can't be involved, elaborate on it because you won't take them over there?

hal samis said...

Anonymous, a, a (8:51)

I did the math correctly; your version only proves my point more so.
The starting point was your post:
"I'd like to see one of you nay sayers put in that kind of time for a small salary that probably computes to minimum wage once add up the hours and do the math"

So, whereas I used $30,000, $10.00 and 3000 hours, you used 2080 hours yielding $14.42 on an annual basis. The extra money being the lower number of hours per your version. So, all by yourself you bumped the minimum wage up an additional $4.42.

However, since we are dealing with part-timers (they have day jobs although I don't know how active Juettner still is) so let's half your provision of annual hours to 1040 hours (which is 20 hours times 52 weeks) and now we're up to $28.85 an hour which should satisfy even "Charlie Cohen's" contribution of three times the minimum. And you elect yourself as the expert on how "to compute hourly wage"? Clearly you should be the payroll and benefits guru for Xposure.

When you get back from your meeting with the National Guard, of course.

Attn: Charlie, you still owe the blog an explanation to my questions at 12:11 am. Otherwise the ambiguities of your post don't provide any information to anyone.

tdycc is immoral and illegal said...

the tdycc costs between 4 and 5 million dollars a year to operate.
these costs are paid for the unincorporated taxpayers.

however, the tdycc allows non-residents from anywhere to use the facility despite the fact that its supposed to be restricted to unincorporated greenburgh residents. for example, its heavily used by folks in the village of elmsford. about 20% of the users are from outside unincorporated greenburgh.

the tdycc is a social services agency masquerading as a recreation facility. if it is a true recreation facility, why isnt it run out of greenburgh recreation? this is the old illegal and immoral "separate but equal" doctrine at play in 2009!!

its outrageous that unincorporated greenburgh is subsidizing non-residents by paying for all the capital and related costs of the facility. the only way they try to get around this scam is by charging non-residents a slightly higher fee for using the facility. thats bogus and not authorized by any law.

the town should not be in the poverty alleviation business. the tdycc should be run by the Y or some similiar outfit.

shame on morgan said...

kevin morgan should be in the hall of shame for double dipping on healthcare from the town.

shame on you kevin.

Anonymous said...

Hal, Hal, Hal. Give it a rest, you can never admit to when you're wrong, plus you border line stroke out if you don't get the last word. Pick another topic - and leave out the girl scouts, exposure, Kevin Morgan's health benefits and anything library related. So hopefully that means you'll be quiet.

P.S. And stop destroying LS songs, for those of us who came of age listening to them you're making us cringe.

hal samis said...


Again with the "never admitting you're wrong" bit. So let's go through the drill: where am I wrong?

Thanks for your concern about my health but my most recent doctor's exam said I am in great shape, knock your head.

And to your P.S. It was not me; I don't post under anything but my own name. Apparently there is a someone else beside yourself who is a LS fan.

As for what I may or may not write about on this blog...sorry to be the one insisting you read my posts and then you have to respond. Since I am so often wrong, how fortunate the Town is to have you around to point out that I am wrong. But if it's so obvious that I am mistaken, maybe your role is unnecessary or at least your insights could serve a higher purpose were they to be put to some use. Trading epithets on the blog cannot be such a rewarding experience for a person of your intellect. Why not put your skills to good use: I understand the Library needs someone to wash their windows.

stop defending greed said...

hal is right
what morgan is doing is wrong
sheehahigans and juettner are doing it also

all part of the arrogrant government we have.

all these three know is to take from the taxpayers.

we are doomed.

Anonymous said...


now said...

tear it down.

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

Thanks to Kevin Morgan for all you did not do for the CSEA during our recent rotten negotiations with the Town. Being a former CSEA employee, we thought that you would be on our side in all this dictatorship given out from our Supervisor. But we now know the real you. Before we thought you would be up front, instead of being down under.

Anonymous said...

Kevin Morgan is a turn coat.
He has no friends.
He cannot be trusted.
Do not think because he was a cop he is to be trusted.

Just take a look as to when he started his so called campaign as to how he has changed to a distrustful ak that he has shown to become as we speak.

My advice is stay away from Morgan Or better to stay far away from his hand shaking or his phony hellos

Anonymous said...


You STILL make NO SENSE. I am disgusted reading your manure and listening to your rants at Town Board meetings. Good thing my volume control works.
You offer NOTHING but negativity. This town would NEVER get ahead with someone like you in charge. Good thing you are too chicken to run for office. Your mouth runeth over. So Sayeth The Shepard, So Sayeth The Flock.
Please do us a favor and move to Scarsdale.

Anonymous said...


What's the strange obsession with Hal?

Anonymous said...

6:36 - IDIOT -

Anonymous said...

He is such a pal, that Hal.

enough with this BS said...

TDYCC is a 4 million dollar "community" center. It means it serves its community. Go there and look around. Fairview. There is no reason for this. We have a Greenburgh Parks & Recreation. What's wrong with that?

TDYCC runs educational programs like Xposure. Transportation to this program is by way of bus ONLY for kids in GC. It just so happens, these kids live in Fairview.

The program is needed, and for whatever reason the school can't deliver it, what is so wrong with TDYCC doing it?

GC spends 25K per student. This is the most expensive school district in the entire country. 90% of the families living in the district send their kids to private school and pay outlandish taxes to GC. FAIL

"the school can't deliver it", "what's so wrong with TDYCC doing it?"

I'd like a head count of the families who either send their kids to Xposure or TDYCC camp to see just how many of them pay taxes to Greenburgh? How many even live in TOV?

Lemme tell ya, NO WAY, NO HOW do I think I should continue to act as a charity to Fairview or any GC kid. Do you not think there is not something wrong with both the town and the school district that our taxes are so outlandish, so mismanaged, yet the feeling is that we should all buck up and continue to support this mandatory charity? AND don't dare ask why TDYCC DOES NOT WANT OTHER KIDS TO PARTICIPATE IN ITS PROGRAMS! Walk through the door my a$$. Ask yourself, why don't the other 90% of TOV kids even know about Xposure? Why?
answer: wrong brand of kid.

Shut this backward, racist, 4 million dollar "community" center and fold the programs into Parks & Rec were they belong.
Enough is enough!

Anonymous said...

I wonder how this is done in Iran or Iraq? Hal? What are your thoughts? YOU MUST know.

Anonymous said...

Just think what is ahead. More low income housing paying mininum taxes,and voting to spend your taxes any way they see fit. Something has got to be wrong with this picture.

Anonymous said...

Here are the numbers:
There are 67 families in Fairview living below the poverty line.
$4,000,000/67= $59,700 per family

Why don't we just give them the money and call it a day?

Oh wait just a minute! There are 44 families in Hartsdale living below the poverty line.

Does Paul care? Will Paul share?
Split evenly each family should get $36,000 per year!


Don't you think we could have accomplished this by now?

Better questions: Are we a poverty stricken town?
By world standards? No. By national standards? NO. By New York standards? NO!


Total snow job by Paul.

Anonymous said...

Call To Arms: Multiple felonies have been committed against us costing us thousands of dollars!!!! This is who to contact at the State:


Office of the Attorney General
Public Integrity Bureau

Phone: (212) 416-8090


PIB Hotline:
If you wish to report allegations of government wrongdoing, please call the New York State Public Integrity Hotline: 1-800-428-9072. Calls will be kept confidential.

shame on you said...

to all of you who have voted for juettner for the past 18 years - shame

hal samis said...

More for the criticism collectors.
Sent to the Town Board.

"It was my understanding that by amending the lease with the Credit Union to permit them to erect an outdoor sign at Town Hall along Hillside Avenue, the Credit Union would provide as a quid pro quo signs along Greenburgh gateways. The words on the signs would be something to the effect: Welcome to Greenburgh.

The sign for the Credit Union was completed with alacrity.

I note that no such sign exists along Central Park Avenue.

Please provide me with the locations, if any, where such signs do exist."

Anonymous said...


Close your eyes, click your magic heels three times and say "I DO believe in signs. I DO believe in signs. I DO believe in signs."

Anonymous said...

but 7:38 you are so wrong! the new affordable housing under the county settlement won't be built in TOV, because we are already a fully integrated town. It's going to be built in places like the Villages and Scarsdale.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Edgemont too! lol

danger facing edgemont said...

you are probably right
the county is looking to build housing on central avenue

edgemont, be afraid, be very afraid.

Anonymous said...

The old health spa on Central Ave. would be a perfect spot for low income housing. Would love to see them try. Can't wait.

Anonymous said...

Now all of Edgemont will start to cry that TOV is fully integrated despite the lack of minorities there If they form Edgemont Village...........? Oh boy!

Anonymous said...

Edgemont is in the clear because it is part of TOV. The settlement is based on racial percentages counted by town or village, not by school district. For example, both Ardesley and Hastings have appeared on eligible lists. Ironically, this desegregation settlement should put an end to any move to incorporate Edgemont as a village.

town gunning for edgemont?nt said...

that may be so, but the county is still looking to rezone central avenue to allow multi family

even the town appears to be interested in doing this too

the incorporation movement has not had alot of traction

Anonymous said...

Central Avenue doesn't need to be "rezoned" to permit multifamily housing. It's been zoned to permit multifamily housing since the 1970s, and in the Edgemont School District alone there are more than 900 apartments there, or roughly one-third the total housing stock in Edgemont. The fact that Edgemont already has so many multifamily housing units, most of which already serve the county's moderate income population, means that Edgemont's incorporation, which has gained a lot of traction in the past few months, will have no bearing on what the county or town may or may not do in terms of carrying out the county's settlement.

Anonymous said...

Oh really? Edgemont has affordable housing units?

Anonymous said...

Yes, Edgemont has plenty of affordable housing units along the Central Avenue corridor.

Anonymous said...

Oh Really? Edgemont has renters earning income below $53,000 and families buying with income below $75,000?

This is the criteria under the settlement of the law suit.

Anonymous said...

The desegregation settlement requires that the county provide affordable housing in communities with populations that fall below 3%African American and 7% Latin. I sincerely doubt an incorporated Edgemont would meet those thresholds. This is why I argued earlier that the settlement may be the final nail in the coffin of Edgemont incorporation.

Anonymous said...

Correct. Edgemont AF pop 2.4% Latino/Hispanic 4.2%

Anonymous said...

Why is it that the finger is always pointed at the unincorporated area of Greenburgh.

Are we not the ones that support the centers?
Are we not the ones that support the parks?
Are we not the ones that got screwed with sanitation and the police especially in Edgemont?
Are we not the ones that live along 119 a roadway that has and is getting to be a disaster area?
Are we not the ones that live off of Central Ave. with all the debris on the roadside together with all the weeds.

Why is it always these areas when Greenburgh has many more villages to put the affordable housing.

Could it be that Feiner has personnal friends living in the villages where he can buy all the votes he wants by giving in to what they want.

Is the county so stupid to notice that some villages do not have affordable housing ,,,,I do not think so.
The villages do understand that anyone may apply for housing regardless of where they come from.
SOOOOO guess what they don't want affordable places for the people who live outside of Greenburgh to live.

Anonymous said...

Pipe down 9:58. This stupid country knows damn well that affordable housing is lacking in the Villages. NOW they have to deal with it.

The only way that Edgemont move ahead with its grandiose plans is to a) Build REAL affordable housing (not the faux "moderate income" housing that blogger 11:58 states) or B) incorporate with another area like interestingly enough, HARTSDALE.

The combined population of Greenville and Hartsdale will yield 6% African Americans and 7% Hispanic.

hal samis said...

Just a few questions regarding a topic I acknowledge I know little about.

Raised by 9:10's information and the earlier finger pointing at Edgemont.

What is a "community" under a desegration settlement?

How small an area? It seems like micro-managing if 9:10 is correct.
Greenburgh is the Town, it has incorporated and unincorporated units; the incorporated is composed of separate villages while the unincorporated has "communities" for want of a better term although I have no idea whether this conveys some legal distinction and/or metes and bounds; and within these communities are sections, areas such as Old Edgemont etc. which often become the birth mothers of civic associations.

And cutting across such boundaries as may exist (in mind or on paper) are School Districts.

So how do the "powers that be" determine where on the map these units must be added and in mature communities with little buidable land remaining, can these powers require zoning changes to create housing structures?

Finally, if the above were the case, why does the interest and intent of the "powers that be" overide the interests of the private property owner whose intent may be to use his undeveloped property under the zoning in which it was acquired? What about grandfathering, wouldn't this be counterproductive to the creation of housing of any income level? What if an owner of undeveloped land doesn't want to build anything today or tomorrow? Who considers the tax consequences to the owner of any change from land to an improvement? What if a piece of land exists in a zone allowing multifamily construction and the owner is willing to build for affordable or low income use but it would require variances (height, bulk, parking) to make it "work" (profit from selling high price units requires fewer to be built on the property than selling the same number of lower price units -- holds true for rental units as well) -- are all of the "community's" laws going to get thrown out the window for this "higher" purpose?

Will this be the beginning of a string of emminent domain proceedings?

I'm getting out my Ayn Rand books right after I sign off.

Anonymous said...

All this talk about the settlement's effect on Edgemont's incorporation is nonsensical.

The county has committed to building up to 750 units of "affordable" housing over the next six years in towns and villages with relatively few African American and Latino residents.

At present, unincorporated Greenburgh is NOT one of those targeted towns, but five of the town's six villages -- Ardsley, Hastings, Irvington, Tarrytown and Dobbs Ferry ARE among those targeted, along with the Towns of Eastchester, Scarsdale, the Villages of Pelham Manor and Bronxville, and most of the towns and villages in the county north of I-287.

In other words, there are plenty of places other than Edgemont, many of which, north of I-287, have plenty of lower priced land where the county can and will take legal action if it has to in order to either build the housing required by the settlement or, alternatively, convert already existing housing to make it "affordable."

There will be a monitor appointed to monitor the county's progress in getting these units built. In order to comply with the six-year mandate, the county will almost certainly focus as soon as possible on only those towns and villages already identified by the settlement agreement as places where such housing is needed and because of the lower costs, the county will most likely focus on those towns and villages north of I-287.

Therefore, no matter how you slice it, that makes Edgemont a fairly unlikely location, and even if it incorporates, and theoretically qualifies as one of those areas that might have come under federal scrutiny had it been incorporated as a village when the settlement was agreed to -- Edgemont's elected leaders can address that situation if and when it ever arises (recognizing that there just aren't that many places in Edgemont where such housing can be built in any event).

The alternative for Edgemont is continued mismanagement by the Town of Greenburgh with its out of control spending, its 31% tax hike these past two years, the tax hike for next year, and continued cuts to police, sanitation, snow and leaf removal budgets, not to mention uncertainty over zoning and planning decisions for Edgement by people who don't live there.

Anonymous said...

the term used in the settlement is "municipalties" not communities. school districts are not part of the equation. a quick glance at the NY state website seems to indicate that incorporated villages are considered municipalities.

The test of the settlement is here:

Anonymous said...

Edgemont, Edgemont, Edgemont!

You crack me up. The suit was brought about because of communities like Edgemont. Trying to keep "outsiders" out is going to cause more grief to Edgemont than it's worth.

Cry all you want about Edgemont taxes, Edgemont disappearing services as if it only effects you. Form more private little clubs for yourselves. Build a wall around your schools.

Be afraid.

Anonymous said...

TOV is the most segregated ,municipality in Westchester. 3 facilities/entities providing duplication of services. 3 camps. 3 different recreation programs. All three receiving TOV tax money yet 2 use smoke and mirrors to deny access to all TOV'ers. One school district were whites are "steered away". Another willing to incorporate just to protect its boarders. TOV Greenburgh is the poster child for segregation.

I hope the state takes a good look at TOV.

tov not exempt said...

the county, not the state, is charged with enforcing the agreement.

the statement that the tov is not impacted by the agreement is not accurate as the county can build a number of units where the hispanic and black populations are higher than the limits set by the agreement. but given the cost of land and the low availability, its possible the county will try to do something north of 287 first. additionally, the tov is part of the urban consortium that received money from the county so they are in the case even though parts of the tov have a high concentration of non-whites.

either way, the whole thing is going to be bitter.

Anonymous said...

What about th poor white family ?Are they not counted or is this reverse discrimination?

Anonymous said...

Are there only Black and Hispanic families that are low income? What about the others? Are thay not included ?

Anonymous said...

The agreement as stated by the JN, the final documents will take years to take shape in its interpretation and will need to voted and endorsed by the county board of legislators, is based on income distribution, no ethnic distribution.

Some seats in the County Board of Legislators are to be voted in the primary. I will argue that some turnover might be better than other for the interpretation of the agreement.

Paulin, Abinanti and others endorsing in the primary, might make a difference.
Those who fear to be affected, it will "pay" to be attentive and/or participate at elections like the Lois Bronz seat that is for grabs.

As the primary is line-up, it is my view, one can easy conjure the position of the candidates in this issue.

ed krauss said...

8/14 12:07 What is there about Edgemont that brings out the unbridled animus in "anons" like you?

To my knowledge, there is no conspiracy among realtors and residents of the Edgemont section of unincorporated Greenburgh to "keep undesireables out." If yo can afford to live in Edgemont, irrespective of race, nobody's keeping you out.

Edgemont residents have NOT displayed ELITIST behavior. They are like most hard working, one or two wage earner households, trying to pay for the unconscionable taxes an incompetent town government saddles them with.

As a matter of fact Edgemont tax payers pay a DISPROPORTIONATE share of town taxes.

If pencil goes to paper, if Edgemont does incorporate, the loss of their share of town taxes WOULD DEVASTATE the remaining sections of unincorporated, creating the "mother of all tax increases," OR worse.

So think about what you wish for, you might get it.

As to the 750 unit of integration settlement, there are approximately 1 million people in Westchester. Approximately 333,333 families. Therefore 750 living units would amount to .00225% of the county. I find it hard to believe slightly more than 2 one hundreds of a % would have any real impact.

Additionally, the court case involves two parallel social engineering tracks; affordable housing ( WHICH IS DEFINED, AND IS NOT LOW INCOME HOUSING) and integration. Those two may be mutually exclusive.

Besides, it's not a done deal.

To recap, LEAVE EDGEMONT PEOPLE ALONE, OR HAVE THE GONADS TO USE YOUR REAL NAME... unless of course you're ashamed to put your name to the trash outputted by your keyboard.

Anonymous said...

Dear Ed,

Why should we leave Edgemont alone? Complaints about town government and taxes seem to revolve around how Edgemont is effected.
As a matter of fact, Edgemont does pay a disproportionate amount of taxes because their property values are disproportionately higher. The equity in Edgemont's properties grows disproportionality higher each year. Investing in Edgemont is still a better proposition than anywhere else in TOV. Bottom line is Edgemont has the least amount to lose by our current state of affairs.

However, the same argument could be made of Hartsdale to Fairview. They pay disproportionately higher taxes than Fairview. You never see Harsdale complaining about this. Proportionately, Hartdale is just as financially burdened by taxes and the loss of services as Edgemont is. I'll go one better; I'll bet that Hartsdale families pay a disproportionately higher percentage of thier income in taxes to Greenburgh and their school district than Edgemont families do. I'll bet there are more families in Hartsdale where both parents are working too.

While it is true that many in Edgemont are not elitist some do display this unflattering characteristic. Edgemont Recreation Corp is a fine example. While Edgemont pays taxes to support Greenburgh Recreation and TDYCC it chooses to financial burden itself with paying additionally for ERC. Why do you suppose that is?
I've heard "Veterans Park is just too far away!" "There is just not enough space at camp for our children!" And the more honest folks say " We want our kids to be with kids from our own neighborhood".

Yes, IF Edgemont incorporated it would devastate the rest of TOV leaving a mess behind. This mess would now be Edgemont's new neighbor. Does Edgemont want its gateways to be in shambles? How will this effect property values in Edgemont?

Edgemont REALLY needs to reflect on why it wants to incorporate. Taxes will not go down. Edgemont's own government? Maybe, but you can have that now if someone from Edgemont was serious about running for Supervisor.
So what's the REAL reason?
No matter how you answer, it's a selfish reason. That's not a bad thing but let's be real about it.

Do you think "outsiders" living in TOV should just sit by and "leave Edgemont alone"? Edgemont threatens to move to cause the rest of TOV'ers to lose any investment they have made in TOV. Some will be losing the only retirement income they have!

If you don't like government in TOV, run for office.If you can't afford to live in Edgemont, MOVE and leave the rest of TOV alone.
Regards, Anon.

edgemont should think carefully said...

given the recent westchester desegregation agreement, edgemont would be smart to rethink incorporation

the blogosphere is already predicting some white flight to area not impacted by the settlement - so far this would include edgemont (outside of the vulnerable central avenue corridor)

staying part of the tov will probably improve the values of edgemont's homes (as opposed to scarsdale which is targeted for desegregation)

memo to hartsdale said...

hey hartsdale - what stops you from incorporating to get away from a feckless town government

Anonymous said...

Whether or not Edgemont incorporates, one thing is certain. If and when "affordable housing" is ever proposed for Edgemont, I'd much prefer having elected Edgemont representatives at the bargaining table as decisionmakers than any elected officials from the Town of Greenburgh. For that reason alone, I'd support Edgemont's incorporation in a heartbeat. If Scarsdale, which is three times the size of Edgemont can handle the prospect of affordable housing in its village, so too can Edgemont. But important leaving decisions like this in the hands of the Town of Greenburgh's dysfunctional government would be a disaster for Edgemont.

bitter battle coming said...

the problem with that analysis is incorporation makes edgemont a target for desegregation while staying put immunizes it

wherever the county tries to do this below I287, its going to be bitter.

Anonymous said...

Edgemont is already a target for low income housing along Central Avenue whether or not it incorporates. The Dromore project is a case in point. Staying put will not therefore protect Edgemont at all; to the contrary, it will leave decisionmaking in the hands of a town board that could give a rat's ass about Edgemont and its school district.

Anonymous said...

12:59 & 4:40 (one in the same)Dromore is not targeted for low income housing. The issue is children and the school district.
It's funny how this gets interpreted as "low income".
Lower income apart dwellers with children aka lowlifes in Edgemont.
If Edgemont incorporates maybe the government can interview each candidate for potential mandated, low income housing and prioritize families without children, women are sterile or beyond child bearing years.

Anonymous said...

The owner of the Dromore Road property applied earlier this year to build at least 50 low income apartments on a two acre parcel that's zoned only for single family residences. The application is on hold while the Dromore developer continues to fight against the town in court for the right to do the same thing. Edgemont residents have expressed concern about the proposal, not because it's supposedly a low income project, but because of the impact it might have on an already crowded school system with a very tight school budget. They'd have the same concern if the plan was to build luxury condos.

Anonymous said...

Why doesn't the County, rather than make additional land purchases, simply reassign it's 1/3 interest in Taxter Ridge to be developed for affordable housing?
Taxter has access to good schools (Irvington) and major transportation: I287, the NY State Thruway and Route 9.
And, no one is actually using the land.

Anonymous said...

A lot of rhetoric here is overblown. A handful of minority families scattered among wealthy communities is not going to cause any "white flight." Sorry, but people under the age of 50 have grown up in a different, post-racial age and mindset than prevailed back during the desegregation battles of the 1960s and 70s. It would be amusing, however, prior to the election to press Paul on whether he will commit to working with the county to build affordable housing in the Villages which have appeared on lists in the JournalNews (e.g., Ardsley, Hastings, etc). Watching him squirm on this issue will be hilarious.

westchester is not yasgur's farm said...

the town and the village of ardsley have committed to an affordable housing project at the old waterwheel site

the village of ardsley has also approved some low income housing on saw mill river road in conjunction with SHORE

(sharing the homeless is our responsibilty)

the real issue is whether the county will do anything in scarsdale or bronxville?

as for the Woodstock generation sentitment that a new day has arrived, thats simply not the case.

read the anti-discrimination center's expert report on housing segregation and westchester.


Anonymous said...

I think that the county would have to ask Gold's permission to built affordable homes.

This would be a perfect place since the property will never be used. We all know Feiner pushed for this property to please his friend Gold.
The county will have to go thru Gold and Feiner to accomplish this.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone ever looked at this wasteland to see how many homes may be built?
This is a great solution for affordable homes.
Taxter rd. will never be used as parkland.
What a way to go..
The perfect spot to accomodatde the residents of the state,county and Greenburgh who fit the criteria for housing.As was mentioned the land will not be used for parkland so why waste our tax dollars.
We really did not need this place but the supervisor cut some deal with the owner plus his friend wanted a bigger back yard.

open space and desegregation said...

that would be delicious as the taxter scam was done to stop residential development of the area

so its seems "open space" is code for keeping the undesirables out?

hal samis said...

(with assists as bits and pieces)

"I like it".

Helping reduce taxes: Taxter Ridge.
Build as much housing as you like.
NYS, Westchester County, Greenburgh

"Catch the wind".
One new law from Albany.
'Green' conscious as in green light.

Food for thought.
Who could oppose such an outcome?
Even near the Town's newest Stop & Shop.

No time for hermits.
No more "how can you do what you're doing to me".
"It's now or never".

Happiness runs in a circular motion; everybody is a part of everybody and East Irvington, it's your time to give.

Anonymous said...

The only way that Gold and FEiner did keep the undesireables out was to push for the acquisition of the Taxter rd, property and add it to open speace category.

Now it is up to the county and state to change things arround.
The building of homes will bring in some needed income to Greenburgh and at the same time it will help homeowners with their taxes.

Anonymous said...

Today is August 18th. Please, Mr. Blogman, create a new category for "Week of August 16th". Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Went to Greenburgh Town Court to pay a traffic violation. Was turned away. They do not take credit cards or online payments.

Anonymous said...

NO Opposition!
Sleeping in Greenburgh.

obama is a disaster too said...

62,000 troops in afghanistan
3 more dead today
cost to us taxpayers - 4 billion a month

stop obama's insane war

Anonymous said...

Week of August 2nd: Miscellaneous

wake up said...

mark sleeping on the job

Anonymous said...

It is the start of a new week. Let's kick it off right.... please create a "Week of August 23th: Miscellaneous" section TODAY. Thanks Mr. Blogster.